Kim DeLaney 0:00

The interesting part Ethan, is that in the industry you hear, Oh, you know, Sonic is the toughest part. The city's getting them change their minds. It was literally like God just opened the doors. Like it was so easy. It was scary. So I literally like just shot a code email to this the head of zoning. And he was like, yeah, here's my systems information we'll schedule meeting.

Ethan Waldman 0:22

Welcome to the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast The show where you learn how to plan, build and live the tiny lifestyle. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and today, I'm excited to welcome Kim DeLaney, co founder and chief visionary officer of HaZi enterprises, and the executive director of tiny house big movement. Over the past five years, Kim has made strides in transforming the traditional housing model by utilizing her business savvy and passion for sustainability to champion tiny home communities. From changing municipal ordinances to negotiating real estate development deals. She's on the forefront of creating affordable equitable housing solutions. We're going to dive into her journey exploring how a crisis during the pandemic turned into an innovative approach to housing and her ambitious plans for the future, including her work with sustainable materials like hemp and bamboo, and the upcoming Carolina Tiny House Festival, which is April 12 through 14th that Kim is organizing so stay tuned as we discussed all things tiny living and the impact it can have on our communities with the insightful Kim DeLaney.

All right, I am here with Kim DeLaney. Kim is a Tennessee native and graduate of East Tennessee State University. She's the co founder and chief visionary officer of AZ enterprises, as well as the executive director of Tiny House Big Movement has been in business for five years previously focusing on the hemp and CBD market. Now turning to the plant in a different light as a building commodity. Our mission is to enhance people's lives while building community, while creating a path for equality and equity within the housing market by developing pocket communities of tiny homes. By collaborating with local leaders and green companies, the vision is to develop an eco friendly and sustainable lifestyle. Kim DeLaney, welcome to the show.

Kim DeLaney 2:17

Thank you, Ethan. I'm so glad to be here.

Ethan Waldman 2:19

Great. Glad to have you. Um, so

what is tiny house? Big movement? And what inspired you to start it? Absolutely.

Kim DeLaney 2:27

So I'll do the other part first. So what inspired me was tiny homes in general, right? super cute, super creative. I just like how it kind of challenges the status quo. You know, it's not the traditional, no big house, white picket fence kind of thing. Yep. That's what initially caught my eye. And then, as time progressed, trying to get into a home myself, now that I'm in North Carolina, and I think we tried, oh, gosh, six or seven years ago, could never qualify credit score, whatever the case may be. In the end, we finally qualify for a home. It's a little pricey, I was uncomfortable with it. At the literally the week of closing, we were denied because of my husband at the time because of his student loans. So that was kind of like a bummer, but kind of a blessing in disguise. So then after the divorce, I started looking again, is how I was approved had a little money. But the market had changed, because now it was we're in COVID. And Charlotte is a very tough market. I think the Carolinas and Texas like Houston, were some of the only places that did not go backwards. Yeah, of course, specifically to is where are my businesses, our markets are just really competitive. And pricing keeps going up. So when I was looking the houses were kind of not our standards. Not that was something I wanted to get into. And so, but it was also having that tiny home concept in the back of my head, right? So honestly, I was like, You know what, this is not what I want. I know what I want. I know I want a tiny home, I know I want land. So every home we're looking at is not going to be that. Right. And then so that was that was part of it. And then the other part was, at the end of the day, even like I had checked all the boxes, you know, went to college, I was married have kids, and I was making 80 grand and could not get into a home. And that discouraged me. And so I'm thinking, yeah, if I did all the things, what about the people who haven't? So if my struggle is here, there's just going to be even harder. So that's how the for profit was created us how HaZi was created, and then from Earth be nonprofit. That's how Tiny House Big movement came into play.

Ethan Waldman 4:55

Nice. Okay, so I loved hearing that story and I I agree with answering that part of the question first. So let's do the first part of the question, which is, you know, what is tiny house big movement?

Kim DeLaney 5:06

So tiny house big movement is the ability to change municipalities minds to come in have conversations with city officials in zoning to really look at how we can tackle affordable housing in a creative way. Excuse me. So using their words, right. So some of them don't like the word tiny home. So cottages, I'll call it whatever you want to. So really trying to address the housing need. Yeah. And so looking at it from, from the city official side, and then working with builders to create tiny home communities. So we at this point, I'm at land developer, trying to create create communities here in our area, where the best infill lot small parcels just whatever way we can get in. And

Ethan Waldman 5:52

how do you envision the impact of these tiny home communities on the local housing market or the local housing markets where where you hope to create them?

Kim DeLaney 6:02

I think the impact is going to be huge. I've done a couple of different, like bending opportunities. And the, I guess, outpouring of interest, whether people already online, or you know, of course, everybody says to me, I've seen the shows, I love the shows. So I think that the need is there, the desire is there. I think as horrible as the pandemic was, I think it definitely showed us what is valuable, what's necessary. So I think people are a lot more open to it now, as well. So I think it is great timing. So I think the outcome is really to get everybody in homes. You know, how we talked about a demographic earlier, right? Everybody needs housing. So we're looking at our, our elderly population, we're looking at, you know, new college grads, we're looking at, you know, small families, we're looking at people that just need homes. And so we're hoping well, we know that the impact is going to be outrageous. So now that we've passed the ordinance here, I'm sorry, I probably jumped ahead. Okay. We have so many cities around us that are kind of looking for us to start to build with them.

Nice. Yeah.

Ethan Waldman 7:12

Well, what? You mentioned an ordinance that that got changed. Tell. Tell us about that.

Kim DeLaney 7:16

Yes. So yes. So I'm basing in Concord, which is like a suburb of Charlotte, North Carolina. Okay. And Concord was named, like, best small towns or something by HGTV, like last year. So that just made it the catapult even bigger, great schools, great economic development industries are moving here. And so workforce development is really big, as well as workforce housing. And so being able to go to the city and say, Hey, this is an idea and an opportunity that we're looking to do with the bring tiny homes in the interesting part, Ethan, is that so many, you know, in the industry, you hear? Oh, you know, Sonic is the toughest part. The city's getting them change their minds. It was literally like, God just opened the doors. Like it was so easy. It was scary. Wow. So I literally, like, just shot a code email to this the head of zoning. And he was like, yeah, like, here's my citizens information. We'll schedule a meeting. And I was blown away. Wow. And so had a fantastic meeting with them. They asked me to submit my research. I sent them a huge document of everything I have compiled. And they use that to basically draft the ordinance and asked me for favor. It's It was phenomenal. Amazing.

Ethan Waldman 8:33

So what is the ordinance? Good? Or sorry? How long did it take?

Kim DeLaney 8:37

It took about a year and a half ish. So it just passed this past October.

Ethan Waldman 8:42

Wow. Yeah. So anybody who knows about changing laws knows that that's actually really fast. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so what does the ordinance say? Or do or like, what does it change about about the laws in the town?

Kim DeLaney 8:57

So good.

And the tough part is is conditional. Right? Okay. So currently, it's foundation only. So I'm trying to challenge that a little bit and saying, you know, tiny house on wheels, these people are not transient like these, you know, it's not the same demographic as like a trailer park or, you know, it's a it's a different mentality. So currently, its own foundation, I believe it's 600 square feet. What made it change because they still consider a single family dwelling. Right. So now we're able to kind of forced what density looks like a call is Concord has outpaces growth, we have a sewer allocation issue. Okay. So now I can say, well, we don't necessarily need all those gallons, let's kind of rethink that. And then because we're kind of tackling, I want to say housing that's affordable, right? Yeah. Because we're feedback on it from that side. That gives us a leg up into getting on the sewer allocation timeline. Because right now any builder that comes in, is looking at I got a five year waitlist. So, right. So it gave us some ways to kind of work around that housing piece all together.

Ethan Waldman 10:07

Wow. Fantastic. Fantastic. So how far along are you in the actual, you know, real estate development side of this project,

Kim DeLaney 10:19

we're as far as we need to be, except for capital, so we have of all things. We have a fantastic board, actually, the mayor of Concord, is one of my mentors. So he's been very instrumental and making sure this happens. Nice that we have a solid board of directors that we've created lots of interests with, you know, the city itself, I've had a few investors, I think I'm probably up to about four or five now who are interested in the project. And so it's just a matter of trying to figure out, if for how much equity I want to give up. And that's kind of what's been holding me back. But at this point, we're kind of looking at land, what opportunities are here in the area. And from that point, honestly, as soon as we as soon as we get our pilot project out, I think that's when the funding will will definitely pour in.

Ethan Waldman 11:03

Fantastic. Fantastic. And what is the pilot project? Like? How can you say more about about the design of it? Yeah,

Kim DeLaney 11:11

so we are working with a builder, who is based in Charlotte, and they are still frame builders. So one of our big things is make sure these are like clean builds as clean as possible, and minimize toxins. So that was very integral in who we decided to work with. Okay, so we are currently kind of battling back and forth and tweaking floor plans, but we're looking at a studio up to a three bedroom currently. Nice. So we're really excited about that. So we've saw everything except for the three bedrooms. So they're, they're creating that now. And another thing I thought was interesting is they kind of have on, say, container homes, they're not a fan of, because you know, you can't with a bill of lading, you don't know how clean it is and what chemicals were in. So they actually proposed at our last meeting, that they could basically create a container home cheaper than what you can buy one for, which I thought was, yeah, that was mind blowing to me. But that's kind of where we are. So really working with our builder, Jo Pearson, who's Of course, Miss tiny home, right Miss blight tiny home in my eyes. She is on the board. And we've had conversations with maybe allowing her to give some creative feedback, and how the design is of the homes because they are very masculine right now. They're very transparent with us. Like they don't have a female on the board, who can kind of make those touches. But I think the team is very open. And I think that's very helpful as well.

Ethan Waldman 12:37

Awesome. Yeah. And I'm also a huge fan of Jules, actually has been on the show twice.

Yeah. So And speaking of which, you have an event planned.

And I definitely want to help get the word about out about it. So, you know, tell us about, about the event, you know, you know where it is what it is, and yeah, okay,

Kim DeLaney 13:04

so a little bit of background.

You can I'm always about the backstory, so sorry. Me.

So my background is in event planning. When I was in Tennessee, I worked for East Tennessee State University when I graduated, and I was in multicultural affairs doing student programming for the campus. Really loved that. And so when I moved to Charlotte, I started an event company. And we lasted a couple of years got acquired. So now that I'm back working for myself, I noticed that you know, anytime I'm traveling to a tiny home festival, it's you know, hours from here, it's in like a small country town. And so really looking at one, how can we fundraise, right for a tiny house? Big movement? Yep. But to everything we're trying to do is educate, right? We're trying to change your mind, especially with the city officials, we have to show them that these are not necessarily ships like these are livable, like more than writers and can stay there. So I was like, You know what I have I've done conventions. I've done festivals, as scary and as hard as it is, I'm going to do that. And so

because I'm very

vested in my community, I have made really great connections. So we're able to get the Charlotte Motor Speedway plugged in. They're actually providing this space in kind, which is huge. But I think it gives us a couple things, right? Nice validity and our organization. And then that just great visibility is right there at the speedway, or close to the interstate. Yeah, it's a major arena, right? Like I'm not going to a small country town like it's a major entity. And so we will be there April the 12th through the 14th. So on the 12th is like the pre event. The 12 is invite only so we're getting Dan always say the same wrong. It's Patrick.

Yeah. To come in. From Tiny House

Engage reassociation. So Dan will come in and speak on to kind of speak their language. So we're inviting municipalities to be officials to come in. And he'll talk to them about zoning and you know how to permit and things like that and really discuss also the benefits of townhouse wills. So that will be the Friday the 12th. Okay, that evening, we'll do like a, you know, a networking meet and greet. And then the show will be that weekend, Saturday and Sunday. So as well as to come in builders, of course, vendors of all sizes, food vendors are a little tricky because of the contract with the speedway. But otherwise, everybody is welcome. We're definitely looking for sustainability vendors. So,

you know, explain ACS or

wind power or solar, like any of those people we would love to have as well. So yeah, so we plan to make this like our annual big fundraiser, you know, as opposed to doing like a gala, or business breakfast, like making something that involves a whole community and really putting eyeballs on what we're doing is,

Ethan Waldman 15:59

yeah, nice. And so then, as a fundraiser, the festival will help to support the development of the communities

Correct? Yes. Nice.

Well, that's, that's really exciting. I'm always a fan of hearing about new Tiny House events, you know, organized by new new faces to the movement. It's great.

Kim DeLaney 16:21

Yes, yes, thank you. I'm excited. I'm, it's a lot of work. Every time I put on a show, I think I must be crazy. I feel like I'm gonna have a heart attack. And it all comes together. But it's just the hardest work you

will ever do. Yeah,

Ethan Waldman 16:33

I mean, I planned my own wedding for the most part. And it was, I was after that I was I had major respect for anybody who does professional events. Not easy. Exactly. easy at all.

Kim DeLaney 16:46

Yes, yeah.

Ethan Waldman 16:48

So in your bio, you mentioned, I think there was something about focusing on on hemp as a building commodity. And I was curious if you could tell us more about that. Um, I love hearing about new building materials. I know, I've actually been wanting to have somebody on the show to talk about hempcrete. How, yeah, tell me about where this fits in for you.

Kim DeLaney 17:12

Absolutely. So you know, like you said at the beginning, I come from the CBD and hemp space, right. So there's a lot of farmers here in the area that made some great relationships with. And so again, because legalization is such a tough push, especially in the south, yeah, five years. And now I'm just, you know, I'm just burned out. And so I wanted to kind of keep those connections that come out of the retail side of that, I do not have a green thumb. So there is no point in me trying to be a farmer, like not my jam. And so when I looked at our, you know, just other festivals again, as I did my, because I did the Carolinas cannabis convention, that was my trade show as well. But looking at kind of the waste of the plant, you know, once they create whatever product, how can we reuse that, especially in you know, your non legal space where it's more industrialized ham, and van to because I am immune compromised. So everything I do, the way I live, what I clean with how I eat, really focuses on how much cleaner can it be. And so when I start to look at, I did a class with Parsons School of Design in their healthy building materials. Okay. And when I really understood how that impacts our health, it blew my mind. And so again, as I started putting the pieces together for the organization, it was a, how can we really impact lives and change outcomes, right? How can we change health outcomes, because I would never want somebody to go through what I have been through, if we can make that change. And so that's when I started looking at hempcrete. And seeing how viable it was, especially in this region, right, there was a lot of push, like in Europe, but what was here. So that has been a big focus, and then looking at Bamboo as well. So sustainable products that we can incorporate and build. So even though we have this steel builder right now, that's just a quickest way to get to market. But our end goal is to actually build internally so that we can utilize more of those sustainable products.

Ethan Waldman 19:21

Nice. And then I meant to ask this before, people who listen to this show know that I like jump back and forth topics. Hopefully they're they're okay with it. So with the communities. Do you have a particular model in mind for the homes like are they going to be just sold as single family homes? Will they be rented to people? Will they be condos? Like, how will that work?

Kim DeLaney 19:43

So we're kind of

looking at a mix, right? So okay, like the kids and I went to acne bail, like mid pandemic, and because I had a fascination with tinies right. I wanted to see if we can maneuver as a family. Yeah, that's when they fell in love with it. So that's when I got my complete thought. And so we're looking at having homeownership, which is huge, especially in communities of color, our housing, homeownership, percentages have not changed since like the 50s. When I actually heard this one on the radio coming in that in Charlotte, only things that 40% of the black population is homeowners. And so it's a huge diverse population. So there's still a lot to do there. And so we're looking at, you know, homeownership, of course, because that's, that's just huge. And then we're looking at, you know, leasing options, because rent is insane. Yep. And then also like, some short term rentals, so people can kind of try it out. You know, is this the thing for me? Yeah. So really, I like to call it like a mixed use, so to speak, mix generational community. That's, that's the goal.

Ethan Waldman 20:48

Nice. Nice.mAnd do you have, you know, targets in mind for how to make the homes affordable?

Kim DeLaney 20:56

Yes. So the builder split up. So was interesting to me, my background is in procurement. So before, when I was still working, I worked for Adam and Eve as a buyer as a corporate buyer. And so that's my language like wholesale and, and that kind of thing. And so I noticed when I came into this industry, nobody really spoke that language, right? They're used to doing retail and what else direct to consumer. And so when I started having these conversations with like, I can't think of a business off top my head. But windy. It's windy River and Chattanooga. We had taught a Wind River. Yeah, yeah, we had talked to a couple years ago, I think now they're probably a lot more advanced. But I was like, you know, how can I don't necessarily wanna be a distributor? But can I purchase a home wholesale, and then you know, to resell it? And so I talked to a couple bidders about that. And they were just like, wait, what, like, we don't know, we don't know, we're not set up for that. So that's kind of what I'm looking at. So with our builder nail, the price point is reasonable enough to where we can make the homes. affordable enough. So in in Concord, and Charlotte, that just came out last week, our median cost of a home, it's like 330,000. Now in LA, that might sound phenomenal. But here on the East Coast, it's like Ouch. So yeah, definitely, we'll cut that at least in half. So that's why I'm trying to use of the word affordable housing, but housing is affordable. Right? Nice.

Okay. Okay. Well,

Ethan Waldman 22:26

something that I love about the tiny house movement is that there is still this DIY spirit. And so many people that I've talked to who go on to create tiny home communities or, or start festivals, or do do these kinds of things are people who just looked around and said, Hey, I want you know, I wanted this for myself, or I think that my where I live needs this, and then they go and do it. Yeah. And it's, it's so cool. And so I was curious, you know, if you could give yourself advice,

you know, if you could kind of travel back in time and kind of give yourself advice at the beginning of this process, you know, what are some things that you've learned? Or just another way of asking is what some advice to to one of our listeners who is like, you know, what, I should do that where I live too,

Kim DeLaney 23:10

right? That's such a good question.

KENNETH crave, um, advice would be to be super involved.

I have always been that kid. I've always been one who like just wants to jump in and help and learn. Even in college, I remember saying to my professor, I want to do other internships. Like I want to be a sponge. Like I said, I want to be a sponge and soak it all up, like put me wherever. So I think it's especially as an introvert, which odd used to be, which is crazy. It's really throwing yourself out there. It's it's going to the very first thing I did even with CBD, the first phone call I made was to the Chamber of Commerce. I said, Hey, can we have a conversation? Number one is cannabis number two, we're in the South. Number three, I'm black. Like, can I do this and be okay. Yeah, I just enough cultivated those relationships. And so now my name literally has came up in rooms I'm not in and, and something is bowling there. Right. So it's really being creative. I'm a big advocate of the Chamber of Commerce, I've met so many connections there. I attend a co working space as well as ton of with kind of entrepreneurs. So I'm really like, you know, I'm visible, purposeful, especially as a woman of color. I'm trying to really stand out and be visible in my community so I think is really standing behind what you want. Talking to city officials going to some of those those meetings because they're open to the public. And

just showing your face advice in this great advice for myself that would be do it anyway.

It's scary as shit. Literally every day. Should I do this? Why am I doing this? Oh my god. So you When I called you this morning, got to that grant writing workshop, met so many people in the nonprofit space met like three ladies who are in some aspect of housing, whether it was homelessness or women needing shelter. I got so filled from being there this morning. And I'm literally in the car just like like, thank you God, like, Thank you, God for Ethan been able to move us. Thank you God for like this opportunity. Like it. I can. Everything has just been oh my god, girl. So that's just what it is. But everything has just been so laid out. It's scary. The fascinating. Yeah. So just jump in, like just do it because somebody has to do it. That's the thing. Somebody has to do it.

Ethan Waldman 25:42

Nice. Nice. That's really well said. And I love that advice. Just, you know, just jump in and do it. Yeah, yeah. One thing that I like to ask all my guests is, you know, are there one or two or three resources, things that have helped you specifically, like learn or do this? It could be books, or people or websites, or really anything kind of open ended questions, just the things that have helped you out along the way that you'd like to recommend.

Kim DeLaney 26:10

Okay.

I am a huge nerd. So I research everything usually takes me down the rabbit hole. But initially, I started with somewhere between Tia and microlife. Look just looking at and I think microlife was still kind of building out there. Education website. Yeah, because I remember signing up for their zoning piece that hadn't surfaced yet. So really kind of understanding the back end of it. See how we can make this work. And on the East Coast when I started there really? Were not any communities. I think that can you bail? And, of course microlife that was that I knew of that was kind of it right? And then I found as I start researching, there were smaller ones around us, like women's sandals or big area. There's one here, like Norman Denver area. Yeah. But the research was big for me. So I started with those two entities. And then literally get my hands on anything. I think that tiny house.com, one of those guys, two brothers, I think. And they do like a lot of virtual webinars. Yep. So I started attending those just kind of threw myself in there. And then locally, or as a chamber, but I was a part of this co working space that said it's called flywheel. So even the chamber center there, it's called the Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation. So it's amazing, small business owners there the chamber economic development. So literally everybody's a small business owner that you want to know is in this environment. And so being there, I was actually a candidate to be in the venture mentoring program, which is the MIT program. That's how I got to know the mayor. So I was able to pitch. And then these city community members who are business owners, are able to kind of like, bid on you to say, I want to work with this, this business. And so I have the mayor of Concord, I have a younger black lady who owns two yoga studios, who's also an accountant. And being a gentleman who does hospital housing. And he owns he's also a co partner in one of the big breweries here. I've had that team with me this whole time. And because of that, I think that's why everything's been able to catapult so quickly. So just me getting plugged in, not only from the industry side, but locally as well.

Ethan Waldman 28:39

Got it. Got it? Well,

I want to make sure that people who are listening, especially if you are in the North Carolina area, or surrounding in the Charlotte area, that you know where to find out more so can you say, you know, when and where the festival is and where people can go to find out more?

Kim DeLaney 28:59

Absolutely.

So as far as our social, we have two different areas. So tiny house big movement.org is our organization sites, kind of everything is housed there. Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn is all tiny house big movement handles. And then for the show, it's tiny home fest.org. And the show is the Carolina Tiny House festival. You can find it on Eventbrite and Facebook, there's a event page where they're basically the 12th through the 14th. And again, we're looking for dwellers, we're looking for builders, volunteers, all the things and the applications are on the website so you can fill out whatever. And we do have a special going on right now for builders and dwellers as well. So Oh, and as well as the DWELLER if you want to stay at the speedway, which I think is super cool. We do have a small charge for that but that isn't as an option to do that.

Ethan Waldman 29:53

Nice Yeah.

And as as as an attendee of many a tiny house fast I will say that it's basically the most fun On hanging out after at the at the festival with all the tiny house dwellers because they're the coolest people.

Kim DeLaney 30:07

Exactly yeah,

yes yeah.

So yeah and lodging is even on the site. There is a as you call it an RV Resort that's connected to the speedway that's literally a walk up the street. So if you want like if you want to rent RV or if you have a you know a skoolie or tiny that you want to bring, you can park there as well and it's super cheap. So all that is on the on the tiny house festival website.

Ethan Waldman 30:32

Awesome. Well, Kim DeLaney, thank you so much for being a guest on the show today. This was great. Yes, I appreciate it

Kim DeLaney 30:37

even thank you so much.

Ethan Waldman 30:39

Thank you so much to Kim DeLaney for being a guest on the show today. You can find the show notes including links to the Carolina Tiny House Festival, and Tiny House Big Movement over at thetinyhouse.net/ 289. You will also find a complete written transcript of today's episode there in case that is something that you would like to refer back to. Well, that's all for this week. I'm your host Ethan Waldman, and I'll be back next week with another episode of the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast.