Today's episode is packed with practical tips and inspiring insights on decluttering and organizing your home. Joining me is renowned home organizing expert and bestselling author, Shira Gill. With 15 years of experience, Shira has developed a straightforward 4-step organizing process that can transform any space, no matter its size. In our conversation, we delve into the importance of reducing volume before organizing and how to tackle even the tiniest of spaces without feeling overwhelmed. Plus, Shira shares her wisdom on leading a minimalist lifestyle and how intentional living can create freedom and simplicity in all areas of your life. Stick around to learn Shira's proven 4-step process that you can start using today to declutter and organize your space like a professional.

 

In This Episode:

  • 🛒 Ease of Shopping & Psychology: The simplicity of online shopping as temporary relief for anxiety.
  • 📚 New Book Preview: Shira’s book “Lifestyle” expands minimalism across life areas.
  • ✨ Personal Experience & Approach: Simplifying life; focus on quality projects and relationships.
  • 🔍 Life Audit Process: Evaluating life satisfaction, setting priorities, minimum standards.
  • ❌ Saying No & Minimalist Mindset: Declining opportunities to maintain key goals and focus.
  • 📋 Organizational Tools: Batching tasks to increase efficiency and free time.
  • ❤️ Dealing with People-Pleasing: Scripts for saying no, maintaining relationships.
  • 🏡 Clutter & Organization: Shira's four-step process for decluttering and organizing spaces.
  • 🌍 Cultural Differences: Less clutter and consumption observed outside Western cultures.

Links and Resources:

 

Guest Bio:

Shira Gill

Shira Gill

Shira Gill is a globally recognized home organizing expert and bestselling author with a minimalist philosophy. She has inspired thousands of people to clear clutter from their homes and lives, and developed a process and toolkit that applies to anyone, regardless of budget, space, or lifestyle. Shira is the author of Minimalista, Organized Living, and LifeStyled, and has been featured in 100+ print and media outlets including Good Morning America, Vogue, and The New York Times.

 

Shira's Books:

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More Photos:

Minimalist dining space

Kitchen with minimalist feel

A well organized closet

Author Shira Gill

 

Shira Gill [00:00:00]: The big light bulb moments that I had is that Western civilization spends a lot of time shopping. It's become like a recreational activity. People that I met along my travels were kind of confounded by that idea that, like, you would just go shopping as entertainment as opposed to just buying something to replace something or because you really need it.

Ethan Waldman [00:00:23]: Welcome to the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast, the show where you learn how to plan, build, and live the tiny lifestyle. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and today's episode is packed with practical tips and inspiring insights on decluttering and organizing your home. Joining me is renowned home organizing expert and best selling author, Shira Gill. With 15 years of experience, Shira has developed a straightforward 4 step organizing process that can transform any space no matter its size. In our conversation, we delve into the importance of reducing volume before organizing and how to tackle even the tiniest of spaces without feeling overwhelmed. Plus, Shira shares her wisdom on leading a minimalist lifestyle and how intentional living can create freedom and simplicity in all areas of your life. Stick around to learn Shira's proven 4 step process that you can start using today to declutter and organize your space like a professional. But before we get started, did you know that I personally send tiny house newsletter every week on Tuesdays? It's called Tiny Tuesdays, and it's a weekly email with tiny house news, interviews, photos and resources.

Ethan Waldman [00:01:31]: It's free to subscribe, and I even share sneak peeks of things that are coming up, ask for feedback about upcoming podcast guests and more. It's really the best place to keep a pulse on what I'm doing in the tiny house space and also stay informed of what's going on in the tiny house movement. To sign up, go to thetinyhouse.net/newsletter, where you can sign up for the Tiny Tuesday's newsletter. And of course, you can unsubscribe at any time. I will never send you spam. And if you ever don't wanna receive emails, it's easy to unsubscribe. So again, that's thetinyhouse.net/newsletter. Thanks, and I hope you enjoy next week's Tiny Tuesday's newsletter.

Ethan Waldman [00:02:29]: Alright. I am here with Shira Gill. Shira is a globally recognized home organizing expert and best selling author with minimalist philosophy. She has inspired thousands of people to clear clutter from their homes and lives and developed a process and toolkit that applies to anyone regardless of budget, space, or lifestyle. Shira, welcome to the show.

Shira Gill [00:02:50]: Thank you. I'm super excited to be here.

Ethan Waldman [00:02:53]: Great. Yeah, great to have you. So you've written several books on organizing and minimalism. And I'm curious how you think these principles apply specifically to tiny house living or to living smaller than than you were?

Shira Gill [00:03:08]: Sure. Yeah. So, I've been a professional organizer for about 15 years. I pivoted into writing primarily about 3 years ago, but I've been in every type of home you can imagine, you know, from . Homes that take up entire city blocks to the tiniest home you can imagine, like 300 square feet. And what I've seen is I mean, across the board universally, most people just have too much stuff

Shira Gill [00:03:39]: And more volume than they can successfully manage. I think when you choose to have a tiny home and live smaller, you are forced in a way to reckon with what you own and what you value in a way that people with larger homes often aren't forced to do. They have to opt in. And in an interesting way, the people that I've worked with who are intentionally downsizing, it's much easier for them to make decisions than people in a larger home who can often get paralyzed because they have the space. Yeah. So they have to really make a decision. Well, this thing might be nice or might be functional, but I don't want it even though I have the room to store it. For those small space dwellers, it really comes down to being forced to examine in a much deeper way.

Shira Gill [00:04:27]: At the end of the day, what do you really need for your quality of life? And what do you value?

Ethan Waldman [00:04:34]: Yeah, yeah, that's great. And you've also traveled kind of globally, and studied organised homes, which I think is, it's refreshing to hear because there are just so many different ways to approach minimalism and organizing. And so I'm curious, what were some surprising or like counterintuitive strategies that you discovered that you think could benefit? You know, small living?

Shira Gill [00:04:59]: Yeah, I mean, so I, for my second book, Organized Living, I I really went on this kind of world tour meeting 25 of the top organizing experts across the globe and touring their homes. And I had, you know, one organizer lived in an Airstream trailer with her husband and they had downsized from, you know, a 5,000 square foot home and she had 200 pairs of shoes. And then I had people who were like a family of 5 or 6 living in a, you know, sprawling suburban home and everything in between. And what I noticed I mean, for me, the biggest surprises were just the cultural differences between homes and kind of perspectives. People that I met in cities like Mexico City or Lisbon or Stockholm, or even Paris had such a different way of thinking about their things. And, you know, I think one of the the big light bulb moments that I had is that Americans or or more like a Western civilization is really spends a lot of time shopping. Yeah. And it's become like a recreational activity as opposed to the organizers and just people that I met along my travels were kind of confounded by that idea that, like, you would just go shopping as entertainment as opposed to just buying something to replace something or because you really need it.

Shira Gill [00:06:27]: And so the organizers that I met, essentially outside of the US and Canada, it was much harder for them to get organizing clients because the people that they lived among already weren't drowning in stuff the way the Americans and even the Canadian communities were. So that was kind of one of the big things was just behaviorally. Like people in other countries are not shopping all the time for fun. Come to America. The land of opportunities

Ethan Waldman [00:07:02]: for professional organizers.

Shira Gill [00:07:04]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. I mean, and like, it's funny because I had so many organizers in California where I am based, who literally can't keep up with the demand. It's like everyone needs an organizer, has an organizer, is looking for an organizer. Whereas, you know, when I went to Stockholm or Lisbon or Mexico City, the organizers there said they had a really hard time finding clients because people really weren't drowning in volume in the same way. And so my big light bulb moment doing this book was that what most people are struggling with is not an organizing problem, but a volume problem.

Shira Gill [00:07:45]: And that organizing is actually quite simple. It's just the process of grouping similar things together. Yeah. Whereas volume and and kind of distilling down to the essentials, what's difficult for people is making decisions. And so organizers really in a way become coaches and therapists much more so than organizers because the bulk of our work is helping people make decisions about what to keep, what to get rid of, how to dispose of the unwanted things responsibly. And so it was less like, oh, here's this organizing hack and more what everyone needs is just less stuff to be really simplistic about it.

Ethan Waldman [00:08:26]: I've been reading a lot about anxiety lately. And just just hearing you talk about that I had that light bulb moment connecting like, I think that for a lot of people having too much volume and shopping and all that stuff is a way I think that we try to deal with our anxiety. Do you would you agree with that?

Shira Gill [00:08:44]: Absolutely. A 1000000 percent and to the point where, you know, I'm 15 years into this career. But a few years in, I started realizing that every one of my clients who were just like normal individuals and families, high functioning, were dealing with some sort of hole in their lives that were causing them to over shop, over consume, even, like, just overkeep, like, feel this kind of scarcity around not wanting to part with things. And I actually went back to school to become a certified life coach because I really wanted to help people untangle the mental clutter that led to the physical clutter. And a lot of what I've seen people confronting are deeper issues like anxiety, depression, grief and loss that hasn't been processed. Even something like boredom leads people to shop unnecessarily, like being bored or restless or feeling stagnant in their lives and looking for that dopamine hit. Yeah. Which easily can come in the form of shopping.

Shira Gill [00:09:53]: Right? Like, just add to cart. It couldn't be easier. And we live during a time where you don't have to get dressed and get in your car and drive and park to shop. You can shop from the comfort of your couch with the push of a button and get that dopamine hit. Yeah. And so much of my work now is helping people untangle why are they really shopping. What is that anxiety or that gap that they're trying to fill? And for many people, it's it's a sense of lack or longing in their lives, that they're trying to put a Band Aid on.

Shira Gill [00:10:28]: And when you can really slow down and stop shopping, that's when you can get to the root cause of the issue and actually make deeper changes.

Ethan Waldman [00:10:39]: So your new book, Lifestyle is coming out soon. Can you give us a preview of of how it differs from your previous work and what new insights it offers?

Shira Gill [00:10:50]: Yeah, I'd love to. So, so my first book, Minimalista, basically details my entire process and toolkit for editing, organizing and styling your home.

Ethan Waldman [00:11:02]: Okay.

Shira Gill [00:11:03]: The moment that I had with my publishers was what if you applied these same principles and tools to your life?

Ethan Waldman [00:11:10]: And

Shira Gill [00:11:11]: so my new book, Lifestyle, details how to apply principles of minimalism and organization to every part of your life, including things like your relationships, your finances, your health, your career. What if you look at it from that same lens of where is the clutter? Where is the value? What do I need to automate to simplify my life? What do I need to get rid of to reduce distraction? And I took myself through this process kind of a life reset. After I had, you know, culled through my home and really gotten my home to a place that felt good, I realized my life was overstuffed and cluttered. And I was doing too many things. I was taking on too many commitments. I wanted fewer, better of everything, including relationships, including opportunities for my career. And so a few quick examples are just like, you know, deciding I'm gonna write one book a year, but when I'm writing a book, I'm not then doing a podcast or taking on a 1000000 new clients or opportunities, or launching a product line, I am just focusing in on that one bucket for my career.

Shira Gill [00:12:30]: And that kind of simplifying and distilling to what is the most important thing

Ethan Waldman [00:12:36]: Right.

Shira Gill [00:12:37]: I found to be so valuable across, you know, all areas of my life.

Ethan Waldman [00:12:43]: Yeah, and I'm curious how you how you approach it. Because, you know, as you shared earlier, you're you're a mom, you looks like you're a homeowner, potentially. So there's like, there's like a million things that you have to do on the day to day. Yeah. And so when you're writing that one book per year, like how much time are you carving out for it? Or how do you how do you think about like, balancing that like one most important project with like, I forget the the words. I heard this recently. Like, it's sometimes feels like you're, like, you're the janitor of a mountain of bullshit. And you're like

Shira Gill [00:13:25]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So absolutely. So right. I am a full time working mom with a business. And I'm an author and I have a husband and I have a dog and I have to pay the bills. Yeah.

Shira Gill [00:13:38]: And so I'm right there swimming in the muck with everybody else. And what I have found is it really is a volume issue. That all of us are facing in just too muchness and overstuffed lives and homes and minds. So I go through a process which I do detail in the book called the life audit

Ethan Waldman [00:13:59]: Okay.

Shira Gill [00:14:00]: Where you kind of take a step back and look holistically at all of the areas in your life. And you assess, like, where am I fulfilled? Where am I wanting to really invest? Where am I wanting to divest? And my rule is you can really only go big in one thing at a time. So, for example, when I was a new mom and I had a baby, I wasn't writing a book that year. I was keeping a baby alive. That was my one thing and everything else, I call it, like, goes to, like, a baseline minimum. So you still have to pay your bills. You still have to get food on the table. You're not neglecting the rest of your life, but you're you're setting it down to a baseline minimum that you can live with.

Ethan Waldman [00:14:44]: Yeah.

Shira Gill [00:14:44]: And you're not pushing or, you know, trying to level up while you put the majority of your energy onto that one big thing, whether it's bringing a new baby into the world or writing a book or maybe it's like a personal goal like a weight loss or fitness goal, that becomes kind of the center of where you're gonna constrain your energy and attention. And you define for yourself what is the baseline for everything else that I can live with, And it's a lot of saying no. So when I'm a highly productive active person, people ask me like, how do you do it all? And the answer is I don't. I say no to so many things. I turn down opportunities every day. I turn down things that sound perfectly fun, like going on this podcast or that podcast or doing a brand collaboration because I I know my bigger focus. So that's kind of the minimalist mindset, I would say. And then in this book, I also apply, you know, this organizing toolkit, which is how do you kind of optimize using organization in your life? Like, can you batch all of your errands for one get it done day instead of constantly feeling like you're doing errands every single day all the time? You know, can you schedule all of your medical appointments and dental appointments, like, on one day instead of feeling like it's constantly leaking into everything.

Shira Gill [00:16:16]: So I look at, like, how can you set up these automated systems in your life that then create more time and spaciousness?

Ethan Waldman [00:16:26]: How do you deal with the disappointment? Well, first of all, I was gonna say, thank you for being on my podcast after hearing you talk about that.

Shira Gill [00:16:35]: Oh, yeah.

Ethan Waldman [00:16:36]: Yeah. But

Shira Gill [00:16:37]: like Absolutely, you made the cut.

Ethan Waldman [00:16:40]: As as like a bit of a pleaser, I feel like I would have trouble saying, like, my tendency is to want to say yes to please other people. And I'm curious, like, did you deal with that in your in this kind of shift to saying no to so much? And if so, like, what is your advice?

Shira Gill [00:16:57]: Yeah, so I am I am a sorry, my dog is barking. Give me one second.

Ethan Waldman [00:17:04]: I noticed.

Shira Gill [00:17:06]: Yeah, I'm sure you did. I don't know if you edit this, but real life right here. Yeah. So so the question was basically around, like, if you are a people pleaser, how do you say no? How do you make those cuts? And Yeah. The answer is practice. And I include in this new book many, many scripts for dealing with difficult situations.

Ethan Waldman [00:17:28]: Nice.

Shira Gill [00:17:28]: Things like saying no to can you help out at the kid's school when your plate is already full, but, like, of course, it's the nice thing to do. Or saying no even to things like well meaning neighbors who wanna give you hand me downs, but you know your home is at capacity. So I have developed kind of my own scripts, which I share in the book, but I think, like, the short answer is by modeling your own boundaries and by respecting your own limits, you're actually giving a gift to other people because this is something that everybody struggles with. And we're in such a yes, more is better culture that I've convinced myself by being a model of having limits and boundaries, I'm actually giving other people permission or maybe a little dose of inspiration to do the same for themselves. And so the main way that I say no is by saying something complimentary about the opportunity or the ask of the other person. Like, that's so generous of you or I love that you're asking me and I'm so grateful. And I'm at such full capacity in my life, I would be doing a disservice to myself and to you if I said yes. So it's modeling, like respecting your own boundaries and limits while still being very lovely and complimentary and gracious about whatever that thing is.

Shira Gill [00:18:57]: And I have found on the whole people have been so lovely and understanding and have even said, like, wow, I've never had anyone say that to me. And, like, I really appreciate the honesty that you are at capacity. And instead of especially for women, we're so groomed to just say yes to everything and everyone. That I think by being able to say something like I am at capacity right now or, like, my life is so overstuffed with responsibilities that if I said yes, I know I wouldn't be able to deliver in a way that would actually help you. Then it's kind of a win for everybody.

Ethan Waldman [00:19:37]: Yeah.

Shira Gill [00:19:38]: And you're being honest, you know, like, we can't do it all. It's it's impossible. So there have to be some tough cuts along the way.

Ethan Waldman [00:19:46]: I want to zoom in on on the organizing toolkit a little bit. Because I know that that we have listeners out there who are either in the midst of transitioning from a larger home to a tiny house, or they're starting to prepare to do that. So what are your kind of guidelines for decluttering and organizing? And like, in which order do those happen? Or do they happen together?

Shira Gill [00:20:10]: Yeah. I love that question. The order is really important here. So I have kind of a 4 step process where the first step is just clarity, finding your clarity of why. Why am I organizing? Why am I decluttering? You wanna get a really clear motivating reason, to kind of propel you forward. So that could be, you know, something like I wanna save a bunch of money for retirement or I'm sick of managing so many things. I wanna create more ease and freedom in my life. Whatever the thing is.

Shira Gill [00:20:45]: Write it down. Like, put it on your refrigerator. Have that reason be crystal clear so that when you do get stuck, you have kind of a touchstone to come back to. To be like, right, this is why I'm doing this. Step 2 is the editing decluttering step, and that always comes before organizing. The reason being that organized clutter is still clutter. Right? So you want to declutter. You wanna let go.

Shira Gill [00:21:12]: You wanna decrease your volume before you think about organizing. And a few things I do to make this easier for people. So I find that when people get really excited about organizing a whole home, they kind of zip around from room to room and they get overwhelmed and they don't really accomplish anything. They don't see the result. So I always say rank the rooms or the spaces in your home in order of priority and within each one. So say you're like, I have this whole home. Okay. I'm just gonna start at the front door and I'm gonna do my entry.

Shira Gill [00:21:46]: And I'm not gonna focus on anything else until my entry is decluttered and organized and set up. Now I'm gonna go to whatever's number 2 on my list, whether that's, you know, living room, dining room, etcetera. So one big space at a time. And within that, I would encourage people to tackle 1 micro space at a time. So one drawer, one surface, one shelf. And then if you feel the momentum and you wanna keep going, you keep going. But this way you're never unearthing an entire room onto the floor, getting tired, having to pick up a kid, having to run to an appointment, and now you feel like you're in a bigger mess than you started. So when I'm working with clients, I kind of call it the sweep method.

Shira Gill [00:22:30]: I'll start in one corner of a room and we'll literally just go working our way around until we've touched everything in the room kind of sweeping around. But if we need to stop for lunch, you know, we've decluttered 1 third of the space. That looks great, and then we have the rest to go, but it's not chaos. The one other tip I would say that really people get hung up on is identify your easiest, best donation drop offs. So often people will get really stuck on I made the decisions. I did the decluttering, but now I just have bags everywhere. I don't know what to do with them.

Shira Gill [00:23:11]: I don't know where to go. So before you start your decluttering process, carve out 20 minutes, Google, like, donation drop offs near me, look for those hard to donate things like textile recycling or e waste. I always like to just have my local spots identified. So then once I decluttered, instead of having those piles by the front door, you have a plan. So that can really get things moving out the door.

Ethan Waldman [00:23:40]: Nice. Those are those are great tips. I like I like that you have a real system and process. I think that's really important.

Shira Gill [00:23:48]: Yeah. And I guess I skipped the so the final 2 are so you clarify, then you edit declutter, then you organize. So once you've decluttered, now you can start thinking about those things like what goes together and makes sense together and where does it make sense in my home? Yeah. So I always say organizing is really as simple as grouping similar things together and giving each category a home. That's it. And then my 4th step, which is kind of the fun step, I call elevate. And that's where many of my clients wanna start is like, can we go buy the matching hangers and the beautiful bins and baskets? And I leave that intentionally for the last thing so that you're really taking an inventory once you've decluttered and organized. What do I actually need? Can I repurpose bins or baskets I already own? Did I get rid of enough clothes that now I actually have enough matching hangers? Often, you don't have to buy as much as you might think at the beginning of the process.

Ethan Waldman [00:24:48]: They wanna go shopping. That's what they

Shira Gill [00:24:50]: Everyone wants to go shopping.

Ethan Waldman [00:24:51]: They just wanna go shopping.

Shira Gill [00:24:53]: More and more shopping. I know. Yeah. So think that for the very end and do it only if you feel like it will actually add value.

Ethan Waldman [00:25:02]: In your experience, what are the most common organizational challenges that people face when living in in smaller spaces? And how do you suggest overcoming them?

Shira Gill [00:25:13]: Yeah, I think it's, zones can be really tough in very tiny spaces. You know, especially in a hard working space like a kitchen, or an entryway where often, you know, people in tiny homes, they don't have an entry closet or a mudroom. You're just walking right into your living space. So how do you set up zones where there really is limited space? I can say I have some of those challenges in my own home. While I'm not sure it qualifies as tiny, I do live in a 1200 square foot home with 2 teenagers, a husband, a dog, and our home is over a 100 years old. So No closets. While it's very charming, no closets. Yeah.

Shira Gill [00:25:57]: No garage, no attic. You know, we've got Yeah. Very limited storage. So we've had to sort of hack lots of creative systems. So Yeah. One example I can give is, you know, you open our front door, you're in our living room. But where does the dog leash go? Where do the dirty shoes go? Where do the backpacks go? So we had this tiny sliver of wall space by our front door, and I brought in a carpenter and kind of designed on a piece of paper a little entry locker that can have doors that close since it's in our living room, and it really is tiny. I'm looking at it right now.

Shira Gill [00:26:35]: It's maybe 3 feet wide by 1 foot deep, but it has been a game changer for our family. And inside are hooks for backpacks and coats and hats and the dog leash and a few cubbies to just toss the dirty shoes as they come in. So it's still tight. We still have to really reckon with the volume, but now we're not staring at all that stuff and we have a system that makes sense. So I would say it's look for, like, where are the slivers of space in your home where maybe you can add some concealed storage? There's kind of a display and conceal rule as an organizer. We wanna display the pretty things like coffee table books or even, like, you know, serving bowls or vases that are lovely to look at. We wanna conceal things like, you know, I don't know, the tools, the batteries, the light bulbs, the dog food. And in a tiny space, it can be really hard to figure that out, but finding ways of having doors that close, repurposing things like credenzas or adding a door wherever you can add a door, like to built in cabinets, things like that, so that you have places where you can conceal those utilitarian items.

Ethan Waldman [00:27:52]: Well, for our listeners who are feeling maybe overwhelmed by their clutter or by organizing and, you know, maybe they've read a book and they they want to go further and get more help. What do you suggest looking for? Well, first of all, are you taking clients currently? And then are what do you suggest people look for in a in a organizer?

Shira Gill [00:28:13]: In an organizer? Yeah. So I take a really limited number of clients per year, but I love my work. So if you are interested in working with me, feel free to email me. I would say in terms of what to look for, there are so many like, I interviewed, you know, 25 of 1,000, and there are organizers that specialize in everything from ADHD, so clients who are struggling with attention and focus, to kind of specialized areas like paper clutter or, like, I interviewed one organizer who just does kitchen and pantry setups. So I would say start with thinking about where the places where you feel like you've kind of hit your stride and you're good at and where are the blocks for you? And then look for an organizer who specializes in that. So for me, like, I specialize in coaching people through the process of decluttering. That's really my sweet spot.

Shira Gill [00:29:13]: And I focus on helping people be really responsible and sustainable in how they dispose of things and then elevating because I'm really interested in design and style. There are other organizers that are brilliant with, like, systems and small space hacks and, you know, installation. Like, that's something I don't do. I do I will not put holes in anybody's walls. I'm not qualified to do that. But I know many of my colleagues will think of like, oh, we could store the bike here and let's mount a system. So, like, if that's something you're looking for, those are the kinds of questions I would ask. Okay.

Shira Gill [00:29:52]: Like, do you install things? I also like, there are some organizers who work only with the client, 1 on 1 like myself, where there is a lot of teaching and coaching.

Shira Gill [00:30:04]: And it's a very kind of interactive process. And then there are organizers who come in with a team and will just organize and systematize and label what you have without really doing the coaching or the decluttering. So maybe there's somebody listening who's like, well, I've done the decluttering. I'm really good at that, but I have a hard time with zoning and systems, and I want someone's eye on that. So Yeah. Those are the kind of questions to ask. Like, what's your process like? How do you work? Do you organize with me or without me? Do you install things or make recommendations for systems? And, really, there there is an organizer for every type of challenge right now. There's never been a better time to get organized with support.

Shira Gill [00:30:52]: And people can also search the NAPO directory if they are in the US. Where you can search by type and location.

Ethan Waldman [00:31:00]: And what's NAPO?

Shira Gill [00:31:01]: NAPO is the National Association For Professional Organizers. So that's a directory that's free online where you can put in things like, you know, your city, what your challenge is, and you can find kind of vetted people.

Ethan Waldman [00:31:16]: And is there like a professional certification for for organizers?

Shira Gill [00:31:21]: You know, there's it's it's an unregimented business. Mhmm. And so while there are some certifications out there, it's anyone can be an organizer. I personally started my business before anyone had even heard of professional organizing and there was no training. I had no frame of reference. It was just something I had always been skilled at and loved helping people with. So I would say, like, that's less of a thing that you need to vet is training.

Ethan Waldman [00:31:52]: Okay.

Shira Gill [00:31:52]: And it's more, is this person the right fit for me? Do I like their energy? Do I feel like I trust them in my home? You know, it's a very intimate process, obviously.

Ethan Waldman [00:32:02]: Yeah. Well, I know that over the last 10 years or so since I've been in the tiny house world, the conversation around tiny houses has changed and grown. So Yeah. I'm curious, how do you think the conversation around minimalism and organized living has evolved in recent years?

Shira Gill [00:32:21]: Yeah. It's really interesting. You know, my first book was called Minimalista. And I when I was marketing it, I would really have people recoil at minimalism. The the concept of minimalism was scary to people and off putting, and I think I and many other people have done a lot of work in educating people around what minimalism really is about,

Shira Gill [00:32:43]: which is about intentional living and not about restriction.

Shira Gill [00:32:44]: So I think living and not about restriction. So I think there have been some gains. I feel proud that I'm a part of that. Like, people have read my books and said, oh, wow. Like, I have a really new sense of what minimalism or small space living is. Like, I see now it's less about restriction and more about freedom, which is my primary message. I think there's still a long way to go. I feel that the messages that we have, you know, through social media and online and even in our neighborhoods is still primarily about consumption and bigger is better.

Shira Gill [00:33:25]: But I think there is a very small powerful group of people who are going against the grain and deciding to intentionally downsize or live smaller that I think are really inspiring other people. And I do see I do see movement. I still think we have a long way to go.

Ethan Waldman [00:33:46]: Absolutely. Well, one question that I like to ask all my guests is, is what are 2 or 3 resources that you recommend? And I guess for you, Shira, I'm curious if you have any favorite minimalism or organization books that are not your own? Any, any thinkers in

Shira Gill [00:34:02]: this space that you

Ethan Waldman [00:34:03]: that you really like?

Shira Gill [00:34:04]: Yeah. Yeah, I do. I mean, I read, I read a lot of personal development books. And I love the book Essentialism that, you know, was a huge bestseller, but really applies to business, life, and home Yeah. And is about, you know, finding what's essential to you and and really is like a brilliant book about how to think like a minimalist.

Ethan Waldman [00:34:32]: Yeah.

Shira Gill [00:34:33]: I also really love the book, The Compound Effect, which again is not an organizing book per se, but is a book that is about how small, smart action leads to major transformation and change. It's a book I go back to again and again. I probably read it once a year.

Ethan Waldman [00:34:53]: Wow.

Shira Gill [00:34:54]: I found it incredibly inspiring. And I think, you know, one of the biggest obstacles for people wanting to declutter or downsize or get organized is overwhelm. And so I think thinking about just making small smart decisions every day, I call it a 15 minute win. So Yeah. If you can have 1 15 minute win a day, think about where you'll be in just a few months. And then where will you be in a few years if you are even just every day, like, going through your junk mail, throwing your laundry in and not waiting for it to pile up, putting a donation bag by your front door and tossing one thing in it every day. Mhmm. You're gonna make huge transformation without the overwhelm or feeling like you have to take 2 weeks off work.

Shira Gill [00:35:45]: So those are resources I love. I also love, stopwaste.org, where you can find out sustainable ways to donate everything from, like, paint and hazardous waste to old textiles. Great resource for people who really wanna downsize and do it in an eco conscious way.

Ethan Waldman [00:36:07]: Awesome. Well, Shira Gail, thank you so much for being a guest on the show. It was really great to meet you. And and I you shared so much, so many helpful things. And it was really inspiring to talk.

Shira Gill [00:36:17]: Thanks so much for having me. This was a fun conversation.

Ethan Waldman [00:36:20]: Thank you so much to Shira Gill for being a guest on the show today. You can find the show notes for this episode, including a complete transcript and links and resources at thetinyhouse.net/310. Again, that's thetinyhouse.net/310. Don't forget to go check out Shira's new book. I have a copy and have been really enjoying reading through it. It's awesome. So do check that out. And if you enjoyed today's episode or found it helpful, please make sure to follow the show and share it with anyone who you think might benefit.

Ethan Waldman [00:36:53]: Your support helps us continue to bring valuable content to listeners like you. Well, that's all for this week. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and I'll be back next week with another episode of the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast.

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