Matt Coldren 0:00

I've been trying very hard to avoid the knock on the window, wake up type thing. You know, if I have any inkling of doubt that someone's going to knock on my window, I won't be able to sleep if I have that. I'm in a bad spot. It hasn't happened yet.

Ethan Waldman 0:16

Welcome to the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast. the show where you learn how to plan, build and live the tiny lifestyles. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and this is episode 249 with Matt Coldren. If you've listened to the show for a while, you know that I try to feature tiny houses built for lots of different budgets. And if you listened to my interview with Nicholas Natali a few months ago, and enjoyed it, you'll enjoy this one too. Because my guest Matt Coldren decided not to wait to live tiny. He looked around at what he had saw that he already owned a pickup truck and decided to build out a very inexpensive tiny house in the bed of his pickup truck. And this is allowing Matt to live the lifestyle that he wants to live. He travels for work, so he doesn't need much in terms of his home. And he loves living tiny. So if you want to get inspired by someone who decided to just jump in and do it and not wait for permission, not wait for saving up money or anything like that, check out this interview with Matt Coldren.

I hope you enjoy our conversation. And if you do, I hope you'll leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify and share it with any friends, family or colleagues via social media or however you want to share it if you think that they could learn from this conversation as well. Also, if you're listening and you don't follow the show, make sure to hit that follow button in Spotify and Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. You get a fresh episode of the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast delivered to you every single Friday. I publish episodes on Friday mornings usually so you wake up and the new episode is there for you.

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All right. Let's get on with the show.

All right, I am here with Matt Coldren. Matt is a 31-year-old Cell Tower Climber/ Snowboarder.. Originally from Phoenix, Matt has lived in Flagstaff since 2010. Traveling for work during the week made him realize that paying rent was a waste of money, so he began really thinking about how to cut out rent altogether. Matt got a camper shell for his truck in March of 2022, moved out of his house in July, and has been learning and enjoying having a truck or a house ever since. Matt Coldren, welcome to the show.

Matt Coldren 3:46

Hi, Ethan. How's it going?

Ethan Waldman 3:48

Thanks for thanks for being on the show. I haven't had anybody on yet who, you know, has done a truck bed camper. And I was curious if you could tell us kind of a little bit more about what your thinking was. And why you chose to do a truck bed camper, you know, over over something else.

Matt Coldren 4:15

Okay. Well, it was just an idea, maybe a year and a half ago, I was working with my buddy who told me that he lived in his truck bed for a summer, you know, you just like fantasize about this stuff. And I was like, you know, I think I'm gonna do that. So I started thinking about it. And so in Flagstaff, I mean rent's pretty high. And so with utilities and all that stuff, it was upwards of like, $1400 a month, maybe with internet and all that.

Ethan Waldman 4:43

Wow. Yeah.

Matt Coldren 4:45

And I'm on the road in different states, like most of the week, sometimes two weeks, and at the end of the day, I'd barely be home, so I was just like, I can't afford to keep paying this rent money. And I already had a GMC Sierra like Crewcab. And one day, I was just researching at home and I found a camper sell for $700 in Prescott Valley, and same day, I went and looked at it and it was carpeted. The windows were the only thing that needed some work was the latch on the back and I was like, okay, for $700 I'll take it and it perfect. Okay. All I had to do was like a little bit of Dremel work to the patch on the back to get it to work. Okay. And as soon as I got home with that thing, I was just came on I all I did, like, I stopped snowboarding for the winter. Every day I had off, I was just working on it, you know, it just it really sparked like, a stoke, I guess to be like, Okay, I can start doing this. And it's just been, yeah, just going uphill. Well, not going uphill, but progressing ever since that. Awesome.

Ethan Waldman 5:54

Can you kind of describe the the truck bed camper for you know, since this is a podcast, so people will be listening more than they will be watching? You know, how big is it? What does it have inside of it? Those kinds of things.

Matt Coldren 6:08

Okay, well, I'll start with originally, I was going to sleep in the cab of the truck. So that was the original plan, I took the seats. And I had like a sort of a bed frame like a platform back there. I had closed storage underneath curtains and all that. And I did that one weekend. And I was like that it was super cramped. And it's just not that functional. In terms of, I mean, you can pretty much just sleep in there. So I was like, okay, that's not going to work, I'll do what everyone else does and sleep in the back of the truck. So I started building that out, I left the center, two feet open. For like my rollout pad. This is like looking in from the back of the truck on the right is countertop all the way to the back all the way to the window with a hand pump thing that just drains out the wheel well, cabinets all underneath that with a big one of those big blue water tanks on the very back.

Ethan Waldman 7:07

Okay.

Matt Coldren 7:08

And then so that's the right, the bed rolls out in the middle or rolls up, whatever, so I can use it during the day. And then on the left is like a little short table that like has all my food and stuff. I like repurposed some license plates and all this stuff to like compartmentalize the food and all that stuff. And then just in front of that table, I have the Reliance Flus-N-Go like portable toilet thing.

Ethan Waldman 7:35

Okay.

Matt Coldren 7:36

So I have everything I need back there. When I wake up in the morning, I have a solar generator that I use, I can make coffee, use the bathroom if I need to. So I can wake up and not even have to get out of the truck for a couple hours. You know?

Ethan Waldman 7:52

Nice. And is it, is it tall enough that you can like stand up inside of it?

Matt Coldren 7:57

No, I can't stand up. So that's the one thing that I'm like, I wish I could do a stand up, but I just have to get out of the truck to Yeah, also so going off that like I can't stand up. So it kind of forces this lifestyle like, and my setup has sort of forced me to just spend more time doing activities that I like to do and like actually hanging out with my friends like I hang out with my friends more now. You know, like, and I'll be snowboarding or climbing whatever because sitting in the truck all day is not really an option. It's too cramped.

Ethan Waldman 8:28

Right, right. Now we we started talking, you actually you actually bought my guide Tiny House Decisions. And then you kind of sent me some photos of the truck. And I said I'd love to interview you. So in those photos. Are those are those the same photos that we're talking about? Like because because when I look at that I just see like, you know, like a truck, a bed cap? Like yeah, when I refer to as a bed cap, like I wouldn't look at it and say like, oh, that's a camper.

Matt Coldren 8:59

It's not, yeah, so it's just a cap. It's not like a cab over or anything. It's just a fiberglass cap. Yeah.

Ethan Waldman 9:07

Yeah, so that's like, that's super stealth.

Matt Coldren 9:10

It is. That's what's cool too is I realized, like, I'm learning all these things. Like Sprinter vans? Not stealth. You know, I can - or four wheel drive for that matter. I can drive through snow, like all these places I can park on the street. And since I live in Flagstaff, it just looks like another mountain town truck. You know, like, besides, you can see you can see the reflectix like on the windows like the insulation during the winter. But other than that, yeah, there's no real giveaway that someone's sleeping in there.

Ethan Waldman 9:39

Yeah. Well, that's, that's great and you spent $800 on it?

Matt Coldren 9:45

The cap was only 700 bucks. And I only drove an hour hour away from where I lived in flag and brought home the same day.

Ethan Waldman 9:54

Awesome. So how has it been sleeping in there in the winter?

Matt Coldren 10:01

Not bad. Well, so I built the subfloor. And I have reflectix on the windows and the shell was already carpeted, which I came to realize was a huge blessing because I have like Velcro storage on the roof and stuff. And I have the little portable Mr. Buddy. a really small one that will heat up the ends once I close it up for like the night wherever I'm at. I only have to run that thing for maybe 15 minutes and the whole space is really hot. Tooting my own horn, I guess but I feel like I did a pretty good job of sealing it up and insulating it.

Ethan Waldman 10:33

Nice.

Matt Coldren 10:34

This past weekend was the coldest yet. When I got out to start my truck in the morning it was negative five. Oh, but I mean, I can just tell I was a little bit more chilly than usual. And then when I got out I was like, "Okay, that's, that's why it was negative five."

Ethan Waldman 10:51

That's pretty cold.

Matt Coldren 10:52

So yeah. But yeah, I kind of feel like I'm drawing the line at like, I'll check the weather and if it's gonna be below 10 It's just not really worth camping in that cold. Alright, somewhere warmer because all my stuff grows like the toilet flush thing froze, my hand pump froze, all my stuff froze. It was kind of brutal, but that does not sound fun to learn from that one though.

Ethan Waldman 11:18

But you can you can take your house with you and just search for warmer weather.

Matt Coldren 11:22

That's what I did. I went down to Cape Verde off the Sedona exit and went out to Wet Beaver Creek this last weekend and it was by a creek and it was like 50 degrees and beautiful. So I have the option to do that is the dispersed camping in Arizona is insane. There's so much I just keep wanting to find these sites and stuff. And then yeah, it's kind of an addiction.

Ethan Waldman 11:46

Well, yeah, can you tell us more about like, what what is dispersed camping? And how do you find the places to do it?

Matt Coldren 11:53

For me? I have the Avenza app. I just started like, you know, when I do anything, I go like 110%. So I got into all these apps and stuff. One of my friends from Lake Tahoe showed me the iOverlander app.

Ethan Waldman 12:07

Yeah.

Matt Coldren 12:08

Which has like people checking into dispersed places. And like when they'll have dates when they checked in what the situation was like, was it actually open all that but the events app shows you for service roads. And a dispersed camping road will be like highlighted in orange or it'll there's like a little index on the side that'll tell you if it's dispersed camping motor vehicles all year, this that and then sometimes fill the spots in Flag that I was going to all summer are closing out because there's so much snow but that's kind of just the thing, you when you pull up to the gate, you're like, "Oh, okay, it's closed for the winter, and we'll just find somewhere else." But yeah, the Avenza app and the I Overlander after what I've been relying on in haven't killed me so far, so.

Ethan Waldman 12:58

Awesome. And then so you just - go ahead.

Matt Coldren 13:01

Oh, I was just gonna say I've, I've been trying very hard to avoid the knock on the window, wake up type thing. You know, I just, if I don't feel like, if I have any inkling of doubt that someone's gonna knock on my window, or disturb me in the middle of the night. I I just will move on. You know, I just, I won't be able to sleep if I have that sense that I'm in a bad spot.

Ethan Waldman 13:25

Has that happened yet? Have you had that?

Matt Coldren 13:27

IT hasn't happened yet? I'm gonna try to keep that going. Yeah.

Ethan Waldman 13:33

I'm glad to hear it. So what do you have to do? Walk me through like the process of going from kind of day mode to night mode. Like what do you have to do to kind of get yourself into the bed of the truck, kind of tucked in, ready to sleep?

Matt Coldren 13:49

Okay. Well, at first, over the summer, I was packing everything up every night. I was like rolling my bed up sleeping bag, putting it all on my store. I have a rooftop box on the cab. And over time I was like, it's too much work. It's a hole, it would take me like a whole hour to get all this stuff ready. So now I just I pulled the sleeping bag back toward the window, roll the bed up toward the window. And that's pretty much it. So like if I'm pulling up to my site, before I get there, or whatever I'll have whatever food stuff I want to cook toward the back. It's really not that much stuff.

Ethan Waldman 14:27

Yeah.

Matt Coldren 14:28

Sometimes I'll prep my coffeemaker the night before but I can really just pull up and get in close up. And that's it. And I do I do peel the, it's been if it's sunny or warm I like to see out so I'll I'll peel the reflectix back. So other than just like covering the windows again with the reflectix, making sure I have propane in the heater's one thing - or enough propane, but it's really not. It's gotten so much quicker. I've pulled up in the middle of the night now and I was so scared to just pull up like super late. In light of all the preparation I used to have to do but now I pulled up at like midnight this past weekend to a spot like at Snowball the ski resort in Flagstaff one night.

Ethan Waldman 15:10

Nice.

Matt Coldren 15:11

Just pulled up at midnight when, you know, no one's gonna mess with you and just got in, fired up the heater, and good to go.

Ethan Waldman 15:19

Awesome. And then you get you get the fresh tracks.

Matt Coldren 15:22

Exactly. Yeah. And it's been really busy up there. So waking up in the parking lot, I'm guaranteed my parking spot, and I have a season past but I don't really mind like, I want to go late, but like it's been so busy. Camping, there is just how you relieve that trip. I just wake up and...

Ethan Waldman 15:40

That's the way to do it.

Matt Coldren 15:41

Yeah.

Ethan Waldman 15:43

Do you have a way of getting into the bed from inside the cabin? Or do you have to go to outside?

Matt Coldren 15:52

I have to go outside.

Ethan Waldman 15:53

Okay.

Matt Coldren 15:53

And that's just the truck I have you know, it like, in hindsight, if I would have known where I'd be now I probably would have - I would have probably got like a suburban like that one guy you interviewed. Because being able to walk straight up to the steering wheel is pretty cool. So besides that, and I can't stand up. Those are like the two main things, but

Ethan Waldman 15:59

Right.

Matt Coldren 16:02

I have to get out.

Ethan Waldman 16:19

How long do you do you think you'll do it for?

Matt Coldren 16:23

I don't see an end to it. Um, so in the stage I'm at right now I'm just in the save money to build a tiny house stage.

Ethan Waldman 16:30

Nice.

Matt Coldren 16:30

So but I'm really enjoying it, you know? So it's only been like, it's awesome six months or something. And I'm saving money and enjoying it. So I don't really see why I would stop. The only thing that's been like expensive. Well, I had neck surgery in August, actually. So there's that. So it's kind of a funny timeline, right. When I moved into the truck. The first two weeks went so well. So amazing. And I was like, "Yes, this is awesome." And then I got an, I had an MRI because I was having weird like, shake my legs were shaking and like these weird symptoms of like, "I'll get this checked out." And then I had to get surgery like immediately after the two first two weeks of living in the truck. So instead of paying rent I was like paying for surgery.

Ethan Waldman 17:17

Oh my gosh.

Matt Coldren 17:17

Well, we got back into it. Yeah, but besides that and car maintenance, truck maintenance stuff because I drive back and forth to Phoenix a lot for flying and stuff. So yeah, I don't see an end.

Ethan Waldman 17:32

I'm glad you're okay.

Matt Coldren 17:34

Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Now. Back to climbing.

Ethan Waldman 17:39

I would imagine that like after surgery, like climbing into the truck bed might not have been as fun or easy.

Matt Coldren 17:46

Yeah, it was. It was a little while my neck was pretty stiff for a while. But luckily my parents live in Phoenix. So I just I have that as a blessing too. My situation's kind of, it's just kind of perfect. They live. My parents live in Phoenix. So I'm able to keep my Pelican case there for work. So it's kind of like I'll just stop by, grab my Pelican case, fly wherever. They they're kind of letting me store a thing or two like for work at their house. So I have that.

Ethan Waldman 18:15

Yeah. What, can you tell? I'm just curious, because I think people I'm just prefacing this, the reason why I'm asking you what you do for work, because I think that people, you know, I try to expose my listeners to lots of different types of tiny lifestyles, because I've realized that there are so many different subsets within tiny. So I'm just, you know, curious, like, what what do you do for work?

Matt Coldren 18:41

I do cell phone tower maintenance, for lack of a better way to describe it.

Ethan Waldman 18:49

Okay.

Matt Coldren 18:50

For the most part, it's just a lot of travel, or traveling around different areas. That's the project I'm on now is maintenance. So we're looking at just the structural safety of these towers, pretty much.

Ethan Waldman 19:07

Okay.

Matt Coldren 19:08

But yeah, so that that schedule lends itself to the way I'm living in this truck to you because it's not a full time. Yeah, not full time in the truck, which makes it way more manageable. I think if I had to live full time in the truck, it'd be a lot harder. But so since I'm at like hotels during the week, you know, it's like by the end of my work week, or work two weeks. I'm just like, so ready to get back in the truck. And be away and then however long I'm in the truck, like could be 5-10 days. By the end of that. I'm like, "Alright, I'm ready to go take a shower in a hotel." So they kind of just like speak to each other. It really worked out. Yeah, I think yeah, it'd be really, really tough.

Ethan Waldman 19:52

Nice,

Matt Coldren 19:52

full time in the truck, you know?

Ethan Waldman 19:55

Yeah. Well, it's it sounds like for you know, for someone who tried calls for work a lot. And your employer's probably paying for the travel and putting you up in a hotel when you're when you're there. You don't need that much at home.

Matt Coldren 20:10

Exactly. Yeah, they pay for hotel, they pay for flights, and I get to keep all the hotel points and the flight points.

Ethan Waldman 20:18

Yep.

Matt Coldren 20:19

So I mean, yeah, I can stay in a hotel if I need to. Whenever with points, I can fly wherever. And I can pretty much live wherever too as long as I'm sort of near like, a major airport. I can move I can live pretty much wherever I want. I haven't ventured out of Arizona yet.

Ethan Waldman 20:38

What's your what's your background? Like? What did you like train to specifically do that?

Matt Coldren 20:43

Before this I was building ski lifts.

Ethan Waldman 20:47

Oh, wow.

Matt Coldren 20:49

Yeah.

Ethan Waldman 20:50

You've got the climbing background already.

Matt Coldren 20:54

Sort of, there's a little bit in the list. It's not it's actually not that big of a part of it the towers for the list. But I worked at Snowbowl for probably 10 years. And then they were building a new lift. And I got hired on to build that lift. And then I ended up working for that company for five years building a bunch of lifts. And then COVID happened. And when COVID happened, the people I quarantined with got me into rock climbing outside. I'd never rock climbed. And I just became obsessed with it. And we went every day. And then I went back to I went to Utah to build another ski lift. And like halfway through that my little brother already worked for this power company. And we started talking about it. And he ended up getting me an interview. And I was like, because I was super into climbing. I wanted to just climb stuff.

Ethan Waldman 21:39

Yeah.

Matt Coldren 21:40

That was like two years ago. And 2020. And then yeah, that's the path that got me. The tower climbing and Yeah, been doing it since. It's pretty cool. And it's good. It's yeah. And when it sucks, it really sucks.

Ethan Waldman 21:56

But yeah, I would imagine that having to do it in really bad weather is not not that fun.

Matt Coldren 22:03

Terrible. Yeah. And you always have to be like, you know, you wake up, you can't just have like an off day. Like say you have to climb a 400 foot tower. You kind of have to be, you just have to be focused all the time, because it's kind of a dangerous in that sense, you know?

Ethan Waldman 22:20

Right, right. So are you essentially like lead climbing up the tower?

Matt Coldren 22:25

No. So there's a safety cable.

Ethan Waldman 22:29

Okay.

Matt Coldren 22:29

It runs the span of most of the towers. Some of them don't have them. Well, we have a little, like Ascender on our chest on our harness, you clip onto the rope and it goes with you up the tower, and it locks when you, like if you fall.

Ethan Waldman 22:43

Okay.

Matt Coldren 22:45

So that's the main safety on most some of them don't have that. And you have to use your Pelican hooks, the big hooks, double hook like that. But yeah, we're 100% tied off all the time. So you're always connected to the tower.

Ethan Waldman 22:58

That's good. That's good.

Matt Coldren 22:59

I wouldn't want to free climb any of these things. That'd be insane. Especially because we got a lot of weight, like between 15 to 30 pounds of stuff just hanging off of us.

Ethan Waldman 23:11

Right. So you're bringing tools up there too?

Matt Coldren 23:13

Yeah, we got to random bolts and all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Ethan Waldman 23:20

Well, I appreciate your lifestyle because I like that you kind of worked with what you already had, which was your truck. And you know, instead of spending a really long time kind of agonizing about it, dreaming of a tiny house you kind of said like what can I do right now with what I have right now. And now you're saving you know, I'm guessing what your rent was $1400 a month that you can put just straight towards whatever's next.

Matt Coldren 23:47

Exactly. Yeah, I mean, always everybody you know you see it on Instagram you see the fantasy tiny house stuff and yeah, I don't know just one day clicked and it lined up perfectly with the end of my lease in that house too. I loved that house it was like this little one bedroom brick house in Flagstaff like awesome but yeah, I don't know my I got the shell and then I had four months until my lease was up and I just you know you just you do it's if you do one project at a time, like I did, it becomes feasible. And then by the end of July I was like, "I can fully do this." I had field tested, so I had time to like field test the truck you know?

Ethan Waldman 24:31

Yeah

Matt Coldren 24:32

and see you don't really know until you get in it and like I'm always changing not always changing stuff. It's that like, pretty much where I like it now what the first couple of times I was like, "Okay, this doesn't work like this doesn't work. We got a small leak right here let's fix that."

Ethan Waldman 24:46

Yeah, yeah,

Matt Coldren 24:47

Stuff like that. But yeah one project at a time. You can do it. So that's why I'm that's why I'm so motivated to do the tiny house because I'm like, I know I was my construction background and all this like, not worried about Have that it's just tack. There's a lot of like loopholes, you know, with codes and zoning and all that.

Ethan Waldman 25:06

Yeah,

Matt Coldren 25:07

that, um, that do stress me out. But there are also things that I know I'll be able to handle piece by piece when I actually start going forward.

Ethan Waldman 25:17

Do you think you'll do like a I'm gonna say classic tiny house on wheels?

Matt Coldren 25:21

I think so. Yeah. So by the climbing gym, I go to in flag, there was a couple of tiny homes being built on trailers that would drive by every day. When I'm leaving the gym. And I actually saw this, there's a tiny home community that popped up in Flagstaff. I drove by a couple weeks ago, and I was like, "Oh, that's where those houses are going." But yeah, they're they're just standard, like gabled tiny homes, like, I don't need that much, you know?

Ethan Waldman 25:47

Yeah. Yeah. And do you think you'll you'll try to travel with the tiny home? Or do you think you'll try to keep that, you know, keep it in place? And then do your traveling from there?

Matt Coldren 25:58

Yeah, I'd like to. I think I'd like to set it down somewhere.

Ethan Waldman 26:02

Yeah.

Matt Coldren 26:03

The idea of driving it around seems kind of daunting.

Ethan Waldman 26:08

When you've got the Yeah, I mean, I've definitely seen tiny house people, especially ones who, who have traveled with our tiny house will then kind of realize, or they've always known but it becomes pretty burdensome to tow around a 10,000 pound house. So they end up building out something that is mobile like a van or a skoolie conversion. That becomes their travel tiny house and then their "big tiny house" in quotes, you know, becomes the thing that that stays put.

Matt Coldren 26:39

Yes, I've already got the truck. I'm like, I do fantasize about van - like my brother just got a little Ford Transit van that he's kind of lagging on building out, which I wish he would start so I can help him. But...

Ethan Waldman 26:52

Yeah, he needs you.

Matt Coldren 26:53

Yeah, I mean, you see vans all over the place. My friends who work for another tower climbing company have this really cool school bus short bus that's amazing. That they're constantly working on.

Ethan Waldman 27:05

Nice.

Matt Coldren 27:05

But I'm like, Yeah, I already I already have a, you know, a little mobile house. It's, it's not the best, but it's getting it done. So I'm like, it's it's tiny out from here. You know, maybe I think trying to buy land or something is what I'd have to do first though. I'm just yeah, one thing at a time. You know, my mind goes all over the place. But right now I'm like, Just save money and try to enjoy it while I'm doing it is awesome. Yeah, I'm 30 Today is my birthday. Actually, I'm 32.

Ethan Waldman 27:33

Happy birthday.

Matt Coldren 27:35

So I got to do it, you know? Yeah. Only getting old.

Ethan Waldman 27:38

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So one thing that I like to ask all my guests is, you know, what are two or three resources that that helped you out when you were doing this project? And that you'd like to share with our listeners, and it could be kind of open ended? It could be YouTube channels. It could be people, you know, anything?

Matt Coldren 27:57

Um, YouTube, actually found this. This dude, like, halfway through filming my stuff. This guy, Mav. I think his name is Maverick. And I was like, halfway through my stuff. And I had already camped a couple times. And I found his channel I was like, "Wow, this guy, like, hi setup is exactly like mine." Like, same heater, same generator, at least at first. All that stuff. I was like, "Okay." So I started watching all his stuff. And that just gets me stoked, too. So him and I during like, surgery recovery I read like, every tiny house book. I can't remember all the names. There was like, Design and Construction 101. I think it was like Dan Louche. A bunch of books, even just books. Not about construction. Just little tiny houses. Like there was one that had there's boats and... So it just like sparked the I don't know the creativity in my head like you can do this. It doesn't have to be there's no set way to build a tiny home. You know, there's a million different ways you can do it, which is like okay, so yeah, I'm not doing it wrong. I'm doing it a different way, you know, or just my way and so. Probably just those Yeah.

Ethan Waldman 29:17

Awesome.

Matt Coldren 29:18

That dude's channel and...

Ethan Waldman 29:19

Awesome? Well, Matt Coldren, thanks so much for for being a guest on the show today. This was really fun.

Matt Coldren 29:26

No problem.

Ethan Waldman 29:29

Thank you so much to Matt Coldren for being a guest on the show today. You can find the show notes for this episode, including photos of Matt's truck bed, a complete transcript and more over at thetinyhouse.net/249. Again, that's thetinyhouse.net/249.

I really appreciate you listening. I would love if you could share this podcast with two or three friends who you think could benefit from it. That is the best way that the show gets new listeners and I love reaching new listeners on the show. So again, if you can share the show with two or three people who you think would appreciate it, I would appreciate you very much.

Well, that's all for this week. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and I'll be back next week with another episode of the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai