John Wells [00:00:00]: My mortgage was killing me. I was paying $one, 000 a month just in taxes.

John Wells [00:00:04]: I, joined a couple of Yahoo Groups and and found a couple of people that lived out here, and they connected me with somebody who had some land for sale. And I I made a trip back out here and met the guy, and he took me around and showed me a couple of different tracks he had for sale, and I wrote him a check the next day.

Ethan Waldman [00:00:22]: Welcome to the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast, the show where you learn how to plan, build, and live the tiny lifestyle. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and today's episode is a special one. Several years ago, I had the privilege of interviewing John Wells, a true pioneer in the tiny house movement. John first caught my attention through his insightful comments on my Facebook posts about building my own tiny house. And as I dug deeper into his profile, I realized he was the real deal, someone who had fully embraced the off grid minimalist lifestyle. While we initially decided not to release our conversation, recent events have changed my perspective. Sadly, I learned of John's passing through this month's Tiny House Magazine, where he was mentioned as an early influence for Andrew and Laura. This news prompted me to revisit our interview, and I was struck by just how valuable and inspiring our discussion was.

Ethan Waldman [00:01:16]: So I'm sharing it now. In this episode, we'll explore John's remarkable journey from living in a 2800 square foot house to embracing life in a 128 square foot tiny home on the remote Terlingua Ranch in Southwest Texas. John shares practical steps he took to make this dramatic transformation, offering a wealth of tips for anyone interested in off grid living. From starting small with solar power to mastering essential wilderness skills, his story is both inspiring and instructive. We'll also hear about John's adventures and challenges, including how he managed a broken leg in the wilderness, a testament to his resilience and adaptability. Throughout our conversation, John's unique approach to simple living and his authentic personality shine through, providing invaluable insights for those considering a similar lifestyle change. Though recorded a while ago, John's wisdom remains as relevant and thought provoking as ever. I believe it's time to share his experiences with our community. So today, I'm honored to present this never before released interview with John Wells.

Ethan Waldman [00:02:19]: His story serves as a powerful example of embracing a truly minimalist off grid lifestyle surrounded by the beauty of nature. I hope you find John's journey as fascinating and inspiring as I did. Let's dive in. Alright. I am here with John Wells. After 18 years of living in New York City and 7 years in upstate New York, John got fed up with high taxes and being around so many people and decided to move to Terlingua Ranch in Southwest Texas and try his hand at off grid living. He has been there debt free for 12 years and there is no going back. John Wells, welcome to the show.

John Wells [00:03:11]: Hey, Ethan. Nice to be here.

Ethan Waldman [00:03:14]: Great to have you. You know, I came across you, when you commented on a different podcast episode of mine about Ariel, who's been living off grid in Wyoming in a tiny house. And you said, I think I've been doing it a little bit longer. And I was like, as soon as I looked at your blog and your YouTube channel, I was like, Oh, you gotta you've gotta be a guest on the show.

John Wells [00:03:36]: Yeah, I don't know how I came across that video. But somebody had posted it. And I thought I just put in my 2¢ worth.

Ethan Waldman [00:03:43]: Yeah. So why don't we start with, where do you live? And and why did you choose that particular location?

John Wells [00:03:53]: Okay. Well, I I've moved to Terlingua Ranch in Southwest Texas 12 years ago. And I chose this area primarily because the land prices are really cheap, the taxes are really low, and there's absolutely no building restrictions. You can live in a cardboard box if you want to

Ethan Waldman [00:04:13]: Awesome. And so when you say no building restrictions, you really mean, like, zero, nothing?

John Wells [00:04:21]: Well, there's one little restriction. If you live on ten acres or less, full time, you have to have a county approved septic tank or a county approved composting toilet. Okay. Otherwise, you can do what you want.

Ethan Waldman [00:04:36]: You can do what you want. And how much did this whole setup cost you? You know, initially, I know you've, over the years, you've added quite a bit, but just to give us a baseline 12 years ago, to buy this land and build a little house.

John Wells [00:04:54]: Okay, I bought, 40 acres for $8, 000 and my little house cost me about another $8, 000 including the solar and, little details here and there. So, dollars sixteen grand altogether on 40 acres, legally living on my own land in a small house.

Ethan Waldman [00:05:15]: Fantastic. There was a comment recently on your blog. I'm gonna just read it because I think it's a great kind of framing for our conversation. The commenter says, I watched Kristin Dierksen's documentary on YouTube, and I must admit I was quite impressed. I'm seriously considering making a similar move myself. I would love the chance to pick your brain about the life style and the associated reality of such a bold decision. I'm a no nonsense woman who doesn't want anything sugarcoated and regurgitated in an Instagram post. I'm interested in a full disclosure discussion about exactly what is needed to make this happen for myself.

Ethan Waldman [00:05:56]: Now I know you know, these podcast episodes are only about 40 minutes long or so. So we're not going to be able to, you know, give this person the complete rundown. But I'm curious if you could, if we could start with just a rundown of what your setup consists of now, you know, how you live? Like, what are you what are your utilities? How are you getting water? Those kinds of things.

John Wells [00:06:22]: Okay. Well, I've I've got, let's see, about 1200 watts of solar feeding my my electric here, and that's primarily just to run my computer. I've got some other solar panels that just sort of run 12 volt systems like fans and light. I built a huge greenhouse building, 1600 square feet. Originally, it was gonna be a greenhouse, but it turned out I'm a much better builder than I am a farmer, so it's kinda turned into a junkyard over the years. And I'm in a big push to clean that all out. But my little house here is, a, excuse me. My tiny house is, a 128 square feet, and all my rainwater is what I use for drinking.

John Wells [00:07:11]: And I have, capacity for 20,000 gallons of storage. And, it only takes six inches of rain to fill that up. But I've I've never come close to even running dry since I got that all set up. So I've got plenty of water.

Ethan Waldman [00:07:28]: And does that rainwater collection happen just off the roof of your tiny house?

John Wells [00:07:32]: No. It's primarily off my my greenhouse roof, which my house here gives me about a 150 gallons per inch of rain, but my greenhouse gives me 1500 gallons per inch of rain.

Ethan Waldman [00:07:44]: Yeah, this the surface area of the roof is a is a helpful thing.

John Wells [00:07:48]: It certainly is. Yeah.

Ethan Waldman [00:07:50]: So what does your kind of daily routine look like? I mean, do you or do you have a daily routine?

John Wells [00:07:58]: Well, for the past year, I've actually had a daily routine. For a long time, I didn't really have one. I just kinda worked on whatever I felt like. But I I started building a tiny house for a friend of mine a year ago, and I'm just about I'm gonna finish that in about a week, actually.

Ethan Waldman [00:08:15]: Fantastic.

John Wells [00:08:16]: That's gonna, I'm kind of in a big push to get that all wrapped up. It's 304 square feet.

Ethan Waldman [00:08:22]: And is that on your ranch as well? Or is that off-site somewhere?

John Wells [00:08:26]: It's on Terlingua Ranch, but his property is about a mile away from me he has about 80 acres

Ethan Waldman [00:08:37]: Ok so Terlingua Ranch isn't just limited to your 40 acres. It's a bigger swatch of land.

John Wells [00:08:41]: Correct. Yeah. Terlingua Ranch is actually 220, 000 acres.

Ethan Waldman [00:08:45]: Okay.

John Wells [00:08:46]: And it got chopped up into 5 acre and 20 acre and 40 acre tracts back in the seventies, actually. And it was a group of investors that bought the ranch and chopped it up into all these little acreages and sold it off trying to create a hunt park out here. But there's just not enough wildlife to sustain a hunt park. But, you know, they made their money back, selling all their tracts of land, and there's, altogether, there's over 5,000 individual landowners out here.

Ethan Waldman [00:09:17]: Are there still tracts for sale?

John Wells [00:09:20]: Oh, there's plenty of land for sale out here. And there's a lot of tax delinquent land out here too.

Ethan Waldman [00:09:25]: You can kind of pick it up, probably for even cheaper.

John Wells [00:09:29]: Yeah. Yeah.

Ethan Waldman [00:09:30]: When you bought it, was it sight unseen? Or did you did you kind of scope out the area first and then make a decision?

John Wells [00:09:40]: Well, before I moved out here, I had actually met a couple who lived out here and corresponded with them. They they built homemade wind turbines, and that's what got me interested in them. And, and they lived out here. And, I came out and visited them in the let's see. In the spring of 2007, and just to check out the area a little bit. And then I went back to upstate New York and and started thinking, you know, I need to get out of here because my mortgage was killing me.

John Wells [00:10:13]: I was paying a thousand dollars a month just in taxes.

Ethan Waldman [00:10:16]: Oh my.

John Wells [00:10:17]: I, joined a couple of Yahoo Groups and and found a couple of people that lived out here, and they connected me with somebody who had some land for sale, and I I made a trip back out here and met the guy. And he took me around and showed me couple of different tracts he had for sale. And this was the best one that he had, and I wrote him a check the next day.

Ethan Waldman [00:10:39]: That's awesome. And how long? How long? How much time was there between you buying this piece of land and you kind of leaving your life in New York and starting this new life?

John Wells [00:10:52]: You know, I had already sold my place in upstate New York before I decided where to go. And, it was, a couple of months after I'd sold my property, but I packed everything up and headed out west and and met this individual and and bought the land. And then I took another month or 2 off in Phoenix visiting family trying to figure out what I was gonna do. And then I came back and just threw myself into it.

Ethan Waldman [00:11:20]: Nice. So it seems like you are, I guess, I it's fair to say you're in the middle of nowhere.

John Wells [00:11:28]: Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Ethan Waldman [00:11:30]: However, you've got seemingly a great internet connection. Are you able to get things like building supplies delivered? Are you having to drive hours to get basic supplies?

John Wells [00:11:42]: There's a building supply place up in Alpine, which is an hour away from me, and they deliver. So I get stuff delivered. And I can get, Amazon and FedEx come right to my door. So I can get I can get stuff next day sometimes, which is kind of crazy

Ethan Waldman [00:11:59]: That is that is crazy. The the long tentacles of Amazon reach us pretty much no matter where we are.

John Wells [00:12:06]: I love Amazon. Yeah. You know, a lot of times people ask me, in all my years out here, what have I found the best way to sustain myself? And I say Amazon Prime.

Ethan Waldman [00:12:18]: Yeah. I mean, it it does connect you and gives you a selection of, of stuff to buy should you want to buy it. Right? That you could get right in New York City.

John Wells [00:12:31]: Exactly. Yeah.

Ethan Waldman [00:12:32]: Like you never left.

John Wells [00:12:33]: You know, it's funny you use the word stuff because there's an old bit by George Carlin, the comedian from years ago about he he talks about how people have their houses, and the only reason they have big houses is for all their stuff. And, you know, if you leave, you wanna lock your stuff up so nobody will take it. And that's part of it, the trick to living in a tiny house is you can't have a lot of stuff unless you got another place to put it. And so, you know, it it's it's tough. You know, my house in upstate New York was 2800 square feet. And so I went from 2800 square feet to a 128 square feet.

Ethan Waldman [00:13:14]: I don't do public math, so I won't tell you what percentage reduction that is. But it's a lot.

John Wells [00:13:20]: It's a lot smaller.

Ethan Waldman [00:13:21]: So you mentioned that you're a better builder than a farmer. How are you getting your food? Do you just are you homesteading? Or you just you just grocery shop like the rest of us?

John Wells [00:13:32]: I grocery shop. You know, I I had quite an elaborate garden going for a while in my greenhouse. I had some fruit trees and plenty of greens and vegetables growing. But it did take a lot of time, and it took a lot of effort. And I decided I actually I broke my leg really badly about 5 years ago. And that led me to let the greenhouse sort of, you know, turn into a junkyard. And I since have decided that the amount of calories and and and nutritional value I can produce on my own just doesn't balance out to the amount of time and effort I have to put into it. And they sell these things in grocery stores.

John Wells [00:14:12]: They're called cans, and they have vegetables in them. And that stuff lasts forever, and it's pretty cheap. And, so I've sort of gotten out of the you know, when I first came here, I was thinking I was really gonna go for it and try to grow all my own food, and it just wasn't working out for me. And, plus, I'm not that interested in farming, so I just kinda let that go by the wayside. I have one tomato plant, I have to say, that I got last year, and it's almost a year old. It's not producing any tomatoes right now, but it's still alive. And I'm gonna try to keep it alive forever.

Ethan Waldman [00:14:47]: Nice. Well, maybe that could be a topic of of your videos. You do do you do a live stream every day?

John Wells [00:14:55]: I don't do a live I used to do a live stream every day when I was feeding these these wild cottontail rabbits that live out here. And I haven't done that for a while, but I do, I do post videos to my YouTube channel twice a week. And I've been doing that for about 2 years, little over 2 years now. And then, of course, I do my daily blog every day, and I've been doing that for every day for eleven years.

Ethan Waldman [00:15:20]: So that's a great way to either just tune in now and and get a sense of what your life is right now. Or I suppose you can go back to the very beginning and read it in order.

John Wells [00:15:27]: Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny. A lot of people ask me silly questions about me. And I'll say, Just read the blog. It's all there.

Ethan Waldman [00:15:40]: Right. It's a matter of finding finding the post that answers that question.

John Wells [00:15:46]: Exactly. Yeah.

Ethan Waldman [00:15:47]: So when you when you broke your leg, were you able to continue living out there and maintaining the property? Or did you have to leave for a period of time while you recuperated?

John Wells [00:15:57]: I stuck it out here. I had a compound fracture just above my ankle and both bones. And, I was in the hospital for 2 weeks. And the first I'd say the first 2 months back here, it was pretty rough because I was in a wheelchair and couldn't get around. And I had to have people, you know, take me to the store and help me out and stuff. And I hate, like, burdening people with that kind of stuff. I like to just do everything myself. But after about 2 months, I was able to drive again, although I used my left leg to push the pedals.

John Wells [00:16:32]: But, it was like I said, it was tough the first 2 months, but after that, I kinda got into into the scheme of things and stuck it out. I had really slow healing on my legs, so I was I was non weight bearing for a full year. So I was in a wheelchair for most of that time. And then a whole another year, I was partially weight bearing, and it wasn't until 2 years that I could put full weight on it again.

Ethan Waldman [00:16:59]: Wow. That's sounds pretty bad.

John Wells [00:17:02]: Yeah. It wasn't much fun. But, you know, I stuck it out. So...

Ethan Waldman [00:17:07]: it sounds like that, in a way crystallized your lifestyle, because you you had to let the garden in the greenhouse go. And then sounds like you kind of realized that you didn't really like doing it or want to do it anyway.

John Wells [00:17:23]: Yeah, pretty much. It kinda no. It was it was definitely a a life changing experience, and that kinda made me think about, you know, what I need to concentrate on. So, I don't wanna do it again. That's for sure.

Ethan Waldman [00:17:37]: Yeah. one thing that a lot of people who want to live tiny, and particularly those who wanna live off grid, one particular challenge is heating and cooling. Can you give us a rundown of how you I'm guessing you need to cool your place a whole lot more than you need to heat it?

John Wells [00:17:56]: Right. Yeah. Heating out here is not really an issue. Although, we've only had a high today of 44 and we had snow this morning, which happens, like once a year. But, cooling is a whole another issue, and for the first, up until the time I broke my leg, I had built a a 12 volt swamp cooler, which they only work in in areas of low humidity. And, it really I was able to live with it out here, and, it was it was pumping in 20 to 25 degree cooler air from outside just with running a little water through the pump system and and the evaporator. But after I broke my leg, I got kinda soft, and I had to break down. And and I bought a, a portable air conditioner that I use about 2 months out of the year in the hottest part of the summer.

Ethan Waldman [00:18:53]: That's one of the ones I think I we you know, most people aren't gonna get to see this, but I can see behind you. I think I see that unit. Yeah.

John Wells [00:19:01]: It's right there above me on my left. I haven't put it away yet for the winter. But, normally, I pack it up and put it away.

Ethan Waldman [00:19:09]: Any reason you chose a portable rather than a window unit?

John Wells [00:19:14]: I actually had a window unit, but my windows are so small here. It wouldn't fit in any of them. So I just bought this portable one and hooked it up. That way I could vent it through anything.

Ethan Waldman [00:19:26]: Nice. Yeah, that that's, they're more more adaptable in that way.

John Wells [00:19:30]: Yeah.

Ethan Waldman [00:19:31]: And how are you doing your cooking? Do you use do you use wood? Do you use propane? What's your fuel?

John Wells [00:19:37]: Propane. I've got a little propane cooktop in my kitchen. And then, I've got a gas grill that's outside that I I cook stuff in. And I also have a solar oven that I built, a few years ago, and that works pretty well. And even in the wintertime, as long as it's sunny, but in the summertime, it gets up to 450 degrees, so I can cook anything in that.

Ethan Waldman [00:20:02]: That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, you've got an abundance of sun there. So Yeah. Might as well use it. Right?

John Wells [00:20:09]: Yeah. You know, and it's funny. I started off thinking I was gonna have I put up a bunch of wind turbines that I'd built and figured that would be great. And, really, the sun is a lot more reliable than the wind out here. And solar panels are relatively cheap now, and and they don't they don't blow up in high winds unless they're not anchored, of course. But, it's it's all solar for me now.

Ethan Waldman [00:20:34]: Is there anything that you you miss about being on grid?

John Wells [00:20:39]: You know, I I really can't think of anything. It's it's it's funny. Sometimes when I go to a, a hotel like, when I had my broken leg, I had to go I had to travel 3 hours once a month to go see my surgeon to check on my leg, and I'd stay in a hotel. And it just it always kind of amazed me. You could just flick a switch anywhere and not worry about anything, and lights were always on, and you had an unlimited supply of water. But I would say, no. I don't really miss anything about on grid.

Ethan Waldman [00:21:10]: You are something of a self described hermit. I think in the in the Kristin Dierksen documentary, you talked about how you wanted to be a hermit when you were a kid. Do you think that's required to be successful in this lifestyle?

John Wells [00:21:24]: It is if you wanna live in an area like I do, where there's not a whole lot of people around anyway. But, you know, after living in Manhattan all those years, I just I've had enough of people, you know, being around me all the time, and and I'm perfectly happy just here. I've got a a pet longhorned steer and, then a bunch of rabbits that live here and then some javelina, which are some other animals that come around, and then there's a lot of wild burros that come here. So I always tell people I prefer the animals to the the people.

Ethan Waldman [00:22:00]: Right. And yet, you're you're pretty prolific online. And I would imagine that you you end up interacting with a lot of people through your website.

John Wells [00:22:07]: Yeah. You know, it's funny. If if it wasn't for that, I would probably be really crazy by now. I'd be writing manifestos and stuff like that instead of corresponding with my blog readers and, and Facebook followers and stuff like that

Ethan Waldman [00:22:22]: Sure. If you're willing to share, what does it what does it cost you now per year to live there?

John Wells [00:22:31]: You know, my expenses right now are running about, $1600 a month. And the big expense is my health insurance, which I pay for, which is crazy. And then feeding my longhorn. He costs almost $300 a month to feed. Wow. So if I if I got rid of my health insurance and my longhorn, I'd be talking, like, you know, $10,000 a year. $1000 a month, $12,000 a year.

Ethan Waldman [00:23:02]: That's awesome. Alright. So are there any taxes property taxes where you are?

John Wells [00:23:07]: There are. You know, like I said, when I lived in upstate New York, I had a big farmhouse on 35 acres, and it was $12000 a year, my property tax. Out here, I have a 100 acres, and my my tiny house, and my greenhouse building, and I pay $400 a year.

Ethan Waldman [00:23:28]: That's amazing

John Wells [00:23:29]: Yeah. When I get my tax bill, I go in and pay it personally and just dance into the tax office. I'm happy to give them the money.

Ethan Waldman [00:23:34]: So are you, if you don't want to answer the question, that's fine... how do you make money?

John Wells [00:23:44]: I burned through a lot of savings when I first came out here because I sold my house in upstate New York and and made some pretty good money off of it. But, I've been doing some odd jobs around here, and like I said, for the past year, I've been building a house for somebody, so that's that's been my income for this year. I sell merchandise for the field lab, you know, my blog. Occasionally, I cast silver custom silver items and and sell those occasionally. I have this t shirt I'm wearing, I don't know if you can see it, but, it's years ago that I kind of adopted, and, the rancher actually gave her to me for my birthday one year. Because she was 22 years old at the time and kinda sickly, and she just ended up staying here all the time. And I started a Facebook page all about her. And when she finally died, I sold $4,000 in t shirts just to her fans.

Ethan Waldman [00:24:46]: Wow.

John Wells [00:24:47]: That was called Operation Milk a Dead Cow.

Ethan Waldman [00:24:51]: That's great. Are the t shirts still for sale, or was that a limited edition?

John Wells [00:24:56]: No. I haven't I haven't had any for sale lately. I I had I had an online store for a while and sold some merchandise for my my old rooster I had. I had an attack rooster here that was my buddy for a couple of years, and and he finally died. So I have I have some coffee mugs and t shirts that I that I used to sell for him, but I had a little trouble with the online store, so I kinda cut that out for now.

Ethan Waldman [00:25:21]: I'm sure you have people who get in touch and say, you know, teach me. I wanna learn. I wanna learn how you do this. What do you tell them?

John Wells [00:25:28]: I tell them, if they're gonna come here, don't buy land sight unseen. Don't come here with just enough money to buy your property, because you're gonna discover that you're gonna have all kinds of expenses. And just, you know, and have some skills to be able to do things yourself because, our labor force out here is is not that great. And, you know, a lot of people think just because they've watched a couple of videos, they've got it figured out. And I tell them, you know, it's a whole another world when you when you live it for real.

Ethan Waldman [00:26:03]: Yeah, I'm curious. Do you recommend so like, there are many people who I know who, who want to be doing maybe not exactly what you're doing, but do want to live off grid. Do you suggest that maybe they take it like one system at a time? Like, try water harvesting, see what that's like? You know, try try going one system at a time? Or is it just better to kind of jump in?

John Wells [00:26:31]: You know, it's funny, you should ask that because, a lot of people ask me, well, how much solar do I need? And, you know, that that in question that question is impossible to answer. And I tell them, if you wanna experiment with solar, it's it's all modular. You can you can do 400 watts at a time, you can do a 100 watts at a time, and you can add just amount of batteries or that amount of batteries. And, you know, try you know, just take your home office off the grid and go from there. And, you know, I still don't have a real good grasp on exactly, you know, how much wattage you need for everything. I just know that, like, when I when I started using my air conditioner, I I already had an extra 400 watts of solar for it, and that wasn't enough. So I added another 400 watts, and that wasn't quite enough. So I added another 400 watts, and then I had more than I needed.

Ethan Waldman [00:27:24]: And how did you know it wasn't enough? Your your your batteries were running dead?

John Wells [00:27:28]: Well, I had a little meter that was telling me how many watts was coming in versus how many watts was getting sucked out.

Ethan Waldman [00:27:35]: Got it. So it was just a more going out than what was coming in.

John Wells [00:27:40]: Exactly.

Ethan Waldman [00:27:41]: So you also on-site have an Airstream guest house, correct?

John Wells [00:27:48]: It's an Airstream behemoth that I shouldn't have bought.

Ethan Waldman [00:27:53]: Oh. Why not?

John Wells [00:27:55]: Well, I I started gutting it, and this is another thing with my broken leg. I was just about ready to pull the shell off the trailer so I could repair the trailer when I broke my leg. And so it's still sitting out there and, you know, an Airstream is a whole another ball of wax when you start to do that. You know, I could build, like, ten tiny houses in the time it would take me to fix that Airstream up. So it's just sitting out there.

Ethan Waldman [00:28:20]: There's no there are no straight lines in the Airstream. No. I'm just I kind of compiled a list of some of the cool features. You've got, a bike powered washing machine. Is that still still up and running? No.

John Wells [00:28:32]: That was that was a long ago experiment. And

Ethan Waldman [00:28:35]: Okay.

John Wells [00:28:35]: And I, you know, I I tried it out after I built it. That's when I was really gung ho about the whole off grid sustainable living thing, so that's why I built it. And, I almost had a heart attack the first time I tried pedaling that thing. I used to ride bikes all over New York City when I was younger, and I hopped on that thing, and after ten minutes, I was ready to just die. So it's sitting out in the sitting out in the field there, just gathering dust now.

Ethan Waldman [00:29:03]: Well, I suppose that's one benefit of being, you know, kind of isolated. You're not going to piss off any neighbors leaving the bike washing machine in the front.

John Wells [00:29:12]: That's true. You know, out here, there's junkyards galore. You know, people come out here and try to start something, and it's just horrible. In fact, I've been I've been concentrating on all my extra stuff this year. I'm doing a series of videos this year. It's an hour a day of cleaning up, because it's so much to deal with in one shot. I figured, an hour a day, I can start dealing with it. And I found a guy who's gonna build an Adobe house, you know, way he's about fifteen miles from me, and he's all gung ho.

John Wells [00:29:45]: And he wants all my junk. So he's been coming back and forth and taking all my junk. And as soon as I can get rid of that, then I'll be a lot happier.

Ethan Waldman [00:29:54]: Yeah. Do you have a project lined up after you're done building this small house for your friend?

John Wells [00:30:01]: No. I don't specifically. Although, there's there's a number of people that have expressed interest in having me build a house for them. And, to be honest with you, I'm gonna take a couple months off because it's been a lot of work. I'm 60 years old, and, I'm not as young as I used to be, apparently.

Ethan Waldman [00:30:20]: Well, you're still doing it. Have you have you ever thought about taking like interns? I'm sure you could get some some people to come and do all your work for you. And they could learn learn how to live the lifestyle.

John Wells [00:30:31]: You know that I thought about that originally. But I really don't like having people around. So that wouldn't work out for me.

Ethan Waldman [00:30:39]: No. No.

John Wells [00:30:40]: And the funny thing is, when I first came here, I was thinking I'm gonna build this off grid mecca, and all these hot hippie chicks are gonna come out to visit me. But it turns out my demographic is 50 to 60 year old men who wish they could live like this, but their wives won't let them.

Ethan Waldman [00:30:57]: Have you had any, any copycats show up?

John Wells [00:31:01]: Not specifically. There there's a couple of other off gridders out here that are kinda high profile and and really pushing it, but I don't really push it anymore. You know, I'm over the whole off grid tiny house thing personally. You know? I live in a small house. I'm off the grid. It's like luxury camping.

Ethan Waldman [00:31:19]: Right. It's it's kind of like once you've you've did it, you built the house, you set up the systems, and now you don't have to focus on them anymore. You you can move on to how else you wanna use your time.

John Wells [00:31:30]: Yeah. Exactly. You know, I'm I'm really not that interested in the whole off grid thing because all my stuff works for me, and it's just like, you know, if somebody contacts me and wants to learn about it, I tell them what I know and and tell them to go for it if they want to.

Ethan Waldman [00:31:46]: What's your motivation to keep sharing?

John Wells [00:31:49]: Well, the reason I started my blog years ago is because I'd always kept a daily diary, at least for the last 20 years before I came here. And then when I moved here, and it was actually 3 months before I got my phone and internet hooked up out here. And I decided, well, you know, I should do this blog thing instead of just doing my daily diary. And I do tell people that when they comment a lot on my blog, that it's really not a dialogue, it's just my diary. You know, if you wanna comment, fine, and sometimes I'll respond, sometimes I won't. But, originally, it was just an extension of my daily diary, but now it's sort of become this thing to do so I have something to report every day to to stay productive. Because otherwise, I'll just, you know, like most of the people in Trilingual, I'll just sit around and drink beer all day.

Ethan Waldman [00:32:43]: Right. So you have to start with with coffee, and then you can move to the beer later in the day. Yeah.

John Wells [00:32:49]: We we try not to do you know, when I first came here, I kinda fell into the, you know, just, you know, I was just working on whatever and then drinking a lot of beer, and I decided, you know what? There's enough drunks out here. So I kinda cut that back quite a bit. And and now I just, do what I have to do and and then relax in the evening.

Ethan Waldman [00:33:11]: Nice. What are some things that maybe surprised or delighted you that you didn't expect, but you're happy with with your lifestyle?

John Wells [00:33:22]: Well, it's act there's something actually to the reverse of that. And what I'm what I miss is, you know, when you work a 9 to 5 job, you've got your your weekends and your 2 weeks vacation every year that you really look forward to. And I kinda miss that because I don't have weekends or 2 week vacations I need to look forward to because I can take a little break whenever the hell I want.

Ethan Waldman [00:33:49]: It's interesting. It's almost like you miss the limitations because it makes when you when you get that time off, when you get that freedom, it's so sweet. But when you have it all the time, it's less it's less interesting.

John Wells [00:34:01]: Exactly. Yeah. It's kind of you know, I've become a jaded, I don't know how you'd say that, a jaded, vacationer now. And it's I I kinda miss that. Because when I when I was working full time, man, I'd loved those weekends. And I loved those those 2 week vacations. But, you know, that's kinda gone now.

Ethan Waldman [00:34:20]: Have you found any way to kind of spark that that joy again?

John Wells [00:34:25]: Spark that joy? Yeah.

Ethan Waldman [00:34:27]: That's a that's a very, very of our times question.

John Wells [00:34:31]: Yeah, exactly. Well, well, you know, I I I'm always coming up with something new to, like, try out. Like, I tried paragliding, powered paragliding a few years ago. After I broke my leg, I didn't wanna hurt myself again, so I gave that up.

Ethan Waldman [00:34:45]: Is that how you broke your leg?

John Wells [00:34:47]: No. No. It was on a ATV. Ah. And the funny thing is, when I broke my leg, I disappeared from my blog for 2 weeks. And, you know, people were following it, and I was posting every day, and everybody figured I broke my leg on my paramotor. And it was just a silly little ATV accident. And, so that's out of the out of the picture now.

John Wells [00:35:08]: And, I'm kind of I'm kind of into clocks now. So I've been building clocks. I have a 3 d printed clock I made, and then I have another one that was all laser cut parts out of thin plywood that I put together, and I've got an electronic one I'm gonna start putting together soon, but it's got little tiny pieces you gotta solder in. So I told my client who I'm building a house for, I won't start that until I finish your house.

Ethan Waldman [00:35:34]: Do you have a laser cutter out there?

John Wells [00:35:36]: I don't have a laser cutter out here, but I do have a 3 d printer that I I pretty much mastered a little over a year ago. Cool. And, and I'm probably gonna do a little more solar baking later this this summer. Last year, before I started building this house, or the year before that, I was doing a lot of solar baking, and I was selling cookies and bread and stuff that I was that I was making. I even mastered croissants, which is not an easy thing to do. And, so, I'm gonna get back into the solar baking again this summer.

Ethan Waldman [00:36:11]: Cool. And where where is it that you're selling? Are you bringing them is it like a farmer's market? Is there any kind of local community where you live?

John Wells [00:36:19]: There is a farmer's market out here, but I don't really go down there too much. I'd like I said, I don't really like being around people anymore, and so I don't go down to the farmer's market. And, I just sell locally here. You know, people come out here to now legally, you can't ship this the goods, and, I forget what the term is for it, but there's there's a term for, a home kitchen and, you know, there should you have to pass this test on cleanliness and all that. You know, clean your fingernails. That's what you have to do. But, I was just selling locally just pretty much through my my Facebook page to locals out here.

Ethan Waldman [00:37:01]: Nice. How and how far is that grocery store where you're where you're shopping for food?

John Wells [00:37:07]: The big grocery store is 65 miles from here, but there's actually a pretty good grocery store south of me that's only eighteen miles away.

Ethan Waldman [00:37:16]: Have you experimented with getting food delivered through Amazon or through anything else?

John Wells [00:37:20]: Yeah. When I had my broken leg, I had a lot of a lot of my food delivered here. But, you know, I kind of prefer to get stuff a little, you know, some fresh stuff as opposed to stuff that's just in a can all the time.

Ethan Waldman [00:37:32]: Yeah. It's definitely nice to taste the freshness. Yeah. So one thing that I like to ask all of my guests is what what are 2 or 3 resources and I mean, like books or YouTube people or websites that helped you out while you were kind of on this journey that you would like to share with our listeners?

John Wells [00:37:55]: Well, you know, I was already a pretty good carpenter before I came out here. So I didn't have to source anything as far as how to build a small space because it's it's really not rocket science unless, you know, you're building it on a trailer like a traditional tiny house. And, I, you know, I just use my skills. And part of my skill set I used for this particular house were my set building skills. I I built sets in Manhattan for a number of years. And so I built the panels for my house, basically, like I was building a set. And, I assembled all the panels. There were 20 panels altogether, 4 by 8 panels.

John Wells [00:38:40]: And it took me about 6 days to assemble all those panels. It took me one day to assemble the box, basic box, and I moved in after 6 days. And then it took another 2 or 3 months to do all the finish work, but, you know, I I had a I had a secured living space within a week.

Ethan Waldman [00:39:00]: It's interesting. You almost built sips. I mean, they're not sips,

John Wells [00:39:04]: but That's that's what I was kinda thinking as I was building these. And, although they weren't insulated yet, but they were basically just 4 by 8 panels with a couple of structural 2 by 4 members. And I and I sort of fit them so they were all kind of the the outer OSB was kind of overlapped so that they would all fit together and screw together. And then I throw in some insulation after that.

Ethan Waldman [00:39:30]: Cool. Has there ever been a moment or an event that made you think I'm gonna just be done with this all? Like, screw it. I'm going home.

John Wells [00:39:41]: Probably the first week after my broke after I broke my leg. I was kinda thinking things through a little bit more. But other than that, absolutely not. I can't even imagine living in a big house again. You know, when I was a little kid, growing up, even then, I was thinking, why do we have a dining room that we only use, like, once a week or once a month? And why do we have the formal living room that I'm not even allowed to go in? And all that space just as a kid, that never made sense to me. And and when I was little, me and my friends used to like to build forts and stuff, and and I always thought, this is all I need. It's just this tiny little, like, thing to stay in. So, no, I don't really miss, miss anything.

Ethan Waldman [00:40:30]: Well, I think that's a good place to end it. John Wells, thank you so much for being a guest on the show today and for just your your open and honest answers to everything.

John Wells [00:40:40]: My unlimited wisdom.

Ethan Waldman [00:40:43]: Your unlimited wisdom. I look forward to continuing to follow your journey. Where where can people find you?

John Wells [00:40:51]: Okay, well, I do, actually, if you do a go a Google search for John Wells, the field lab, you'll come up with everything you could possibly wanna know about. And, that that'll get you there.

Ethan Waldman [00:41:04]: Alright. Well, thanks so much, John. I appreciate it.

John Wells [00:41:06]: Okay. Thanks, bro.

Ethan Waldman [00:41:09]: Thank you so much to John Wells for being a guest on the show today. You can find the show notes for this episode, including a complete transcript, links, and resources at thetiny house.net/302. If you enjoyed this conversation and found value in it, please take a moment to follow the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast and to share this episode with anyone who you think might benefit from it. Your support helps us continue to bring you inspiring stories and practical advice for your own tiny living journey. Well, that's all for this week. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and I'll be back next week with another episode of the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast.