Chris Schapdick [00:00:00]: I think the thing that resonates with people is there's always been an allure to the road trip and getting out there. And we live in this amazing country that's got all these great things to see, and most people never get to see a lot of that stuff. So we have this notion of taking this road trip, and I think what resonates with people and the smaller, tiny houses that I built is that those small structures are very portable. They're sub 2000 pounds, and you can tow them with a variety of different types of vehicles. And at the same time, they're incredibly personal and incredibly sort of warm and inviting spaces that you're not going to get from, like a mass produced fiberglass camper that's available out there.

Ethan Waldman [00:00:52]: Welcome to the Tiny House Lifestyle podcast, the show where you learn how to plan, build, and live the tiny life lifestyle. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and this is episode 81 with Chris Shaptic. I met Chris at last year's big mass tiny house festival, where he brought a very unique tiny house called lilwing. It's basically a metal triangle with a putting green grass landing, and it's very modern. It's meant to be a little travel trailer. And Chris is actually a tiny house builder with his own company called Tiny Industrial. In addition, he is an author, and so I thought I'd have him on the show to talk about the tiny houses that he's built, the book that he has that's already out, and the book that he has that's coming. Chris is a great guy and it's a fun conversation, so I hope you'll stick around.

Ethan Waldman [00:02:01]: But before we get started, if you have questions that you'd like me to answer live on the Tiny House Lifestyle podcast, I've opened a new way for you to submit them. You can now record a question to be answered on the show. To submit your question, head over to thetinyhouse.net ask and hit the appropriate button again. That's thetinyhouse.net ask where you can record a question for me to answer on the show. I love hearing from listeners and I can't wait to answer your tiny house questions. Whether it's building, living, or anything related to the tiny house lifestyle, everything is fair game. Head over to thetinyhouse.net. ask to submit your question today.

Ethan Waldman [00:03:02]: All right, I am here with Chris Shaptic. Chris is an author, maker, coach, and tiny house builder, and likes helping others forge their own path. Chris used to lead a nine to five office life, which he grew ever more tired of curiosity and a willingness to take risks have made this new path infinitely more rewarding. Since he gets to help people who are struggling to find more meaning and purpose in their lives, putting his experiences together in a book form has been a way to reach more people to help them as well. Chris Shaptic, welcome to the show.

Chris Schapdick [00:03:35]: Thanks for having me.

Ethan Waldman [00:03:37]: You're very welcome. I'm curious if we could just start with your kind of personal story. You know, what brought you to the tiny house movement and then what made you decide to become a tiny house builder?

Chris Schapdick [00:03:52]: Yeah, well, as with most things in life, they very often happen sort of by accident and not in a plan sort of way. And it's the same thing for me, really. I was going back, like, about five, six years. I was a father of a nine year old girl living outside of New York City and sort of very heavily populated suburbia here. And I kind of regretted that my daughter wasn't really getting a lot of sort of exposure to nature and to things that I had done as a kid, just camping, fishing, hiking, these sorts of things. So I started thinking about that more and more, and I decided to buy a piece of land sort of a little bit north of New York City with the idea that we would go up there, we would camp or something. It would be a place to kind of a destination for the two of us. And one thing led to another.

Chris Schapdick [00:04:56]: And it was right around that time that I found Jay Schaefer's book, Tiny House book. And that kind of intrigued me. And then I started going online and I found tumbleweed. Tiny houses. They were sort of the go to at the time. If you go back a couple of years, there weren't that many companies doing this sort of thing. And, yeah, and sort of this idea of, like, having a place to go and camp kind of evolved into, well, what if, like, I built, like, sort of a cabin there or something like that? That might be better. And, yeah, one thing led to another, and I wound up deciding on a tiny house and building a tiny house.

Chris Schapdick [00:05:39]: I'd opted for a shell build from. From the tumbleweed folks, since I was a little intimidated with doing all the framing and roofing and things like that myself. So they offered what was called an amish barn razor, and I went with that. And, yeah, proceeded to sort of spend the next several years off and on, on weekends, kind of finalizing that build and doing, you know, all the various things that need to be done, the insulation, the interior and electrical and plumbing and, you know, coming up with all the various decisions that have to be made during that process as well. But that's kind of like how. Yeah, I got from a to b and now have this wonderful tiny house in upstate New York.

Ethan Waldman [00:06:30]: That's awesome. So it's a tiny house on wheels. Which tumbleweed model is it?

Chris Schapdick [00:06:36]: It's the Linden.

Ethan Waldman [00:06:37]: Linden.

Chris Schapdick [00:06:38]: I don't think they do that one anymore. But yes, it was the Linden model. It has a nice sort of two foot porch on the back of it. And that appealed to me, definitely.

Ethan Waldman [00:06:49]: And so do you still. You still have that tiny house?

Chris Schapdick [00:06:52]: Absolutely, yes.

Ethan Waldman [00:06:54]: That's great. That's great. So you finished out the tumbleweed one and then what was the next step to saying, I want to do this for other people?

Chris Schapdick [00:07:06]: Yeah. Yeah. So when I finished the house, I took it to a tiny house show that was taking place in North Jersey. And I never really intended to take the house. I didn't build it to travel with. It was really just built to fulfill the purpose that I just described. But this show was taking place and I was like, well, you know what, let's get more involved in the community because I enjoy this and let's get together with some other like minded people. And it wasn't too far away.

Chris Schapdick [00:07:42]: It was about a 60 miles drive. My truck was up for the task of towing it there and I went to the tiny house show and it was really. I didn't know what to expect, quite frankly. And during the course of building the house, maybe ten people got to see it during that entire time. And over the course of this one weekend, I had like three or 4000 people trek through the house. And, you know, just the feedback and the, you know, the positive sort of reception that I got from people and the kind words that they had for the house and what I'd done was really just very emotionally overwhelming for me. And it gave me a little bit of pause and I thought, well, I don't ever get this kind of reward or feedback from my nine to five job. You know, I go in there, it's thankless.

Chris Schapdick [00:08:32]: Sure, I get paid, but I'm like crunching numbers on a spreadsheet and writing emails. And that is not very fulfilling. And this weekend completely was. So it had me kind of reconsider. Yeah. Very large aspects of my life at that point.

Ethan Waldman [00:08:52]: Wow, that's huge. Yeah. I guess when you're working a nine to five, which I did for a while as well, nobody treats your work as something amazing and special worth congratulating. But I guess in the tiny house world, because everything can be so unique. Everything kind of reflects the builder or the client or both, there is the opportunity to just really impact people with the work that you do.

Chris Schapdick [00:09:24]: Yeah, absolutely. No, I couldn't agree more. And that house is really just an extension of who I am. Right. Exactly what you're describing. It's such a personal thing. Right. And when in our lives do we really have that opportunity to create something like that? That's such an expression of who we are and what we hold to be important and so forth.

Ethan Waldman [00:09:49]: Right. So what was the first. What was the. Well, I guess. What was the second tiny house you built after your personal house?

Chris Schapdick [00:09:57]: Yeah. So the second tiny house is kind of funny because the first tiny house, great reception. I was like, you know, that was awesome. I want to do this again. The next tiny house show, though, wasn't so conveniently located that I could just kind of drag my house to it. I think it was down in Florida.

Ethan Waldman [00:10:17]: Yeah.

Chris Schapdick [00:10:17]: Like, okay, well, I'm not towing my 10,000 pound house from New York to Florida. That's just unrealistic. So I was like, well, how do I. How do I get to have this experience again? I'll build another tiny house. And that's when I started building sort of the smaller, more mobile vardo gypsy wagon type structures. And I put that second tiny house together in a matter of, like, six weeks. The first tiny house took, like, five years to build, and the second one took six weeks. And off to Florida I went.

Chris Schapdick [00:10:51]: And it was really just a. A desire to continue to be part of this community and environment.

Ethan Waldman [00:10:59]: Yeah. So was that the gypsy wagon?

Chris Schapdick [00:11:02]: Yes, yes, that was the first gypsy wagon build that I did.

Ethan Waldman [00:11:06]: Nice. And did you sell that house at the Florida show?

Chris Schapdick [00:11:11]: I did not sell it at the Florida show. I subsequently sold it, but it was something that. The second build was something that I wanted to sort of. I'd already started thinking about continuing to build these and building more of them for people. So I guess as part of that process, when I built the first gypsy wagon, I documented the entire build, and I was thinking, let me do an online course or something like that. Ultimately, it wound up on instructables.com, and I got a lot of nice feedback there. And again, my point there wasn't really to make money with it or whatever. It was just something that I did out of pure enjoyment and the hopes of helping others do something similar.

Ethan Waldman [00:12:05]: Yeah. And I love that you put this up on instructables and that website. I feel like it was really big in the, like, maybe like, late aughts, early tens. And it's a wonderful resource. Like, people post so many cool projects up there and, like, you've got a step by step, basically set of instructions for how to build a gypsy wagon. Now, I'm curious, now that you've built several more tiny houses, what are, what are some things on that gypsy wagon that, that you would do differently?

Chris Schapdick [00:12:45]: Well, you know, one thing that's always been, been tricky is, you know, when you're working with wood and especially when you're working with plywood, which is kind of the exterior shell of these gypsy wagons, the process of sealing that wood and protecting it from the elements is such a. Yeah, it's such an important step. And it's tricky, right. Because there's, sure there's a lot of, like, sort of marine grade epoxies, but then, you know, you want to, you want to use, like, the environmentally friendly products. Ideally, you worry about things like allergies and off gassing, and people have sensitivities to all those types of things. So that's kind of, that was a struggle right out of the gate and to some extent, like, continues to be one where I try to be, like, very thorough. And, you know, and sealing this plywood is something that I've always found to be a bit of a struggle.

Ethan Waldman [00:13:43]: What's the best way you've found to do it?

Chris Schapdick [00:13:48]: There's a sort of water based sealant that I use now that I haven't found in any stores, but it's available on Amazon.com. and so I apply that to the untreated plywood, and that creates sort of a great sort of base layer to then paint over. There's a lot of sealants that I found or like oils and things like that that subsequently don't lend themselves to being painted over. So that's part of the struggle. Right. So, like, for example, if you were to use, like, a linseed oil or something on plywood, you know, painting over it with latex paint or similar, it typically doesn't lead to a very, very good result. So the sealant that I'm using now coupled with, like, a, you know, high grade exterior paint has been sort of the method that I found to be the most effective thus far.

Ethan Waldman [00:14:45]: And I would imagine that there's also a challenge slash major importance in making sure that the end grain of that plywood is covered well.

Chris Schapdick [00:14:56]: Yes.

Ethan Waldman [00:14:57]: So that, you know, because that's where water would really soak in.

Chris Schapdick [00:15:02]: Yeah, you're absolutely right. The end grain is critical. And I always make it so that the end grain. Well, typically on the smaller structures, I can make it so that the end grain is in the corners. Right. Then I seal and cover up the corners effectively. But you're also mounting that plywood to the interior framing, and invariably, you're putting screws and things through that plywood to mount it to the framing. And then what I do is wherever there's sort of a breach of the plywood and the breach of the exterior paint, I will paint over the screw heads and do whatever I can to restore that integrity.

Ethan Waldman [00:15:44]: Right. Now, do you offer shells of gypsy wagons to people? It's almost like you're paying it forward, like you got the shell from tumbleweed for your first tiny house. Do you offer that to people?

Chris Schapdick [00:15:57]: Absolutely. Yeah. And the shells tend to be pretty popular because people have their own ideas. And quite frankly, it's a great way to save money, too. Right. Because for me to finish out a build for somebody involves my labor, which, of course, I have to charge for versus them doing it. So if they're reasonably comfortable with doing the insulation on the inside, for example, or covering the walls with some tongue and groove, pineapple painting, you know, things like that, if they're comfortable doing that, then, yeah, a shell makes perfect sense. And, yeah, I do get a lot of sort of inquiries about shells.

Chris Schapdick [00:16:35]: And the beauty of it, too, is that you can mix and match. Right. You can get just a very plain shell where there's no door on the thing, no windows, nothing. Or you can say, well, you know, I'd like a shell, but I want you to put in the windows, and I want you to put the solar system in for me and like that type of thing so you can mix and match all those various things to get to both to hit your price point on your budget, and to get to a point where you're comfortable with finishing out the rest of the work yourself.

Ethan Waldman [00:17:13]: Got it. Yeah. I think that is a nice way to both skip some of the heavy lifting and also, you know, as an amateur builder, skip the. Did I seal this correctly? Is this going to leak? Is this structure going to fall down? And just get to focus on the aesthetic things that, in a way, don't matter. I mean, they matter, but they're not, you know, if you do a bad job with your window trim, the house isn't going to fall down. It's just going to look bad.

Chris Schapdick [00:17:43]: Exactly. Exactly. And you can always redo the window trim if you're not happy.

Ethan Waldman [00:17:48]: Yeah, exactly.

Chris Schapdick [00:17:50]: Nothing's chiseled in stone here.

Ethan Waldman [00:17:53]: So there's a couple more tiny houses that I want to ask you about, and then I want to ask you about the book that you just wrote. The first one is actually the first tiny house of yours that I saw in person, which is the lil wing.

Chris Schapdick [00:18:07]: Oh, yeah, the lil wing, yes.

Ethan Waldman [00:18:10]: Like, I'll post pictures of this on the show notes page. I guess. It's. It's like, it's a pentagon. It's a five sided shape. Um, and it's. It's sided and roofed in aluminum, and it's got a green, like golf, almost like a. Like a putting green deck landing strip.

Ethan Waldman [00:18:32]: So what was the inspiration for this house? Did you, like, come up with the shape and go with it, or tell me about the little wing.

Chris Schapdick [00:18:41]: I'll be brutally honest here. So I built the gypsy wagon that I took to that Florida show that I mentioned, and it was done up really nice. I had the interior all done up, lots of live edge wood. I had sort of flower planters on the outside, and I'd gotten so much, a lot of people were looking at it, and they were like, oh, it's so cute. It's so cute. It's so cute. I kept hearing this, and I was like, okay, great. So I wanted to do something sort of, like, very counter that.

Chris Schapdick [00:19:12]: Like, I wanted the pendulum to, like, sort of swing in the other direction. And I was like, well, what can I build where people won't necessarily. People will think it's cool, but they won't necessarily immediately associate the word cute with it.

Ethan Waldman [00:19:23]: Right.

Chris Schapdick [00:19:24]: And kind of the genesis of the little wing design. It was a. It was sort of an aviation inspired thing. Right. With the. With the aluminum on the outside. I'd always been sort of an aviation buff, so I wanted to kind of recreate that, you know, mid 20th century aluminum, space age look kind of thing.

Ethan Waldman [00:19:50]: I see that.

Chris Schapdick [00:19:50]: Yeah. And so that was kind of the rationale there. And then at the same time, I come across some airplane seats on eBay that I purchased. So it was like, oh, those make perfect sense inside of the structure. Right. That's already got this sort of aviation look and feel to it.

Ethan Waldman [00:20:09]: Nice and.

Chris Schapdick [00:20:11]: Yeah. And it kind of. Yeah, it was kind of more of a creative endeavor. And you mentioned the deck, and I put the artificial grass on there, and I wanted something unique, and I wanted something different. And I think it kind of achieved that goal.

Ethan Waldman [00:20:27]: Yeah, absolutely. And it's aerodynamic, too.

Chris Schapdick [00:20:32]: Yes, yes, aerodynamics. Save you a couple gallons fuel on the road. Yes.

Ethan Waldman [00:20:38]: Yeah. And I think that these smaller structures that kind of bridge, the space between a tiny house on wheels and like a camper, where you're getting the fit and finish of a tiny house on wheels, but the size and lighter weight, easier to travel with. Have you found that there's a strong reception and like, you know, people want structures like this?

Chris Schapdick [00:21:08]: I think the thing that resonates with people is there's always been an allure to, you know, the road trip and getting out there and, you know, we live in this amazing country that's got all these great things to see.

Ethan Waldman [00:21:28]: Right.

Chris Schapdick [00:21:28]: And most people never get to see a lot of that stuff, but so we have this notion of like, taking this road trip, and I think what resonates with people and the smaller tiny houses that I build is that one, those small structures are very portable. They're sub 2000 pounds, and you can tow them with a variety of different types of vehicles.

Ethan Waldman [00:21:55]: Yeah.

Chris Schapdick [00:21:56]: And at the same time, they're incredibly personal and incredibly sort of warm and inviting spaces that you're not going to get from, like a mass produced fiberglass camper that's available out there.

Ethan Waldman [00:22:10]: Right.

Chris Schapdick [00:22:13]: So I think this allure of the great american road trip coupled with this very warm and inviting, small, highly portable structure, I think resonates with people, and I think that's been part of the appeal.

Ethan Waldman [00:22:30]: Absolutely. Well, I want to ask about one more tiny house, which is the oculus north. And so this one looks like it's going further toward that full time living, fully off grid, full bathroom, but still small for tiny houses these days. Theres no loft. Its only 7000 pounds. So very towable with a variety of trucks. What was the inspiration for this one?

Chris Schapdick [00:23:04]: So, yeah, I wanted to build. Id gotten a lot of inquiries for larger structures. As youre saying, its a little bit more livable in terms of having the full bathroom and so forth. That was part of the rationale for the oculus design. The other part of the oculus design was, again, quite frankly, the workspace that I have, the workshop that I have as a ten by ten garage door. I don't have the big 15 foot door. So I had to build inside the box, if you will, versus outside the box. And building inside the box meant that I couldn't build a structure that was taller than 10ft high.

Chris Schapdick [00:23:51]: So I worked with things like drop axle trailers to maximize the amount of space that I could get in there. And invariably it led to, yes, sort of single floor living and the structure that you see in front of you. But yeah, that was kind of the background. And yeah, I'd had some people reach out to me that wanted to do sort of Airbnb rentals and things like that. And this was kind of a good size and feature set that people were looking for in that regard.

Ethan Waldman [00:24:26]: Nice. And I saw on Facebook that it is actually, or one of the oculus north houses. I'm not sure how many you've built is available as an Airbnb, correct?

Chris Schapdick [00:24:37]: Yeah, there's one. It's if you go on Airbnb and you type in Narrowsburg, New York, which is in the Catskills region, is sort of where New York state hits Pennsylvania, just north of the New Jersey border. Yeah, it's available there for rental. And. Yes, it's. Yeah, I think it makes for a great, great sort of Airbnb space.

Ethan Waldman [00:25:02]: Yeah, it does look like that. I mean, it's got a small kitchen where you could, you know, wash a couple dishes, make some coffee, but it's not like, you know, a full on, like, cook a meal for five people kitchen. But, like, for an Airbnb, that's. That's perfect.

Chris Schapdick [00:25:22]: Yeah, it's like camping with none of the hardship, for sure. Right. The next level and. Yeah, and I think if you have a small space like that, you know, it's great. It's got the full bathroom, shower. You know, you can do all that. You've got the queen size bed, so you're not, like, uncomfortable in terms of sleeping. And the rest of the time, ideally, you're outside anyway.

Chris Schapdick [00:25:44]: Right. Enjoying nature. Like, that's the whole point. So it kind of checks all those boxes and like you said. Yeah, it's got the kitchen. Cook yourself something. It's got the twelve volt, you know, fully solar powered fridge.

Ethan Waldman [00:26:00]: Yep.

Chris Schapdick [00:26:01]: So, yeah, it's kind of a good package in that way.

Ethan Waldman [00:26:05]: Absolutely. So you're also an author amongst, you know, building all these tiny houses. Tell us about your book.

Chris Schapdick [00:26:15]: Yeah, the book. I. Well, you know, for one, if you told me that I was going to write a book five years ago, like, I would have said, like, no way, that's never happening. But. But, yeah, I was approached by a publisher that was looking to do a book on tiny houses and tiny living. And in conjunction with them, we sort of came up with this concept. And the concept was kind of like, well, let's do a book on all the various things and aspects that you need to think about when you're thinking about tiny houses. And let's have it be in sort of a very kind of nice package with, like, lots of pictures to give people ideas.

Chris Schapdick [00:27:03]: Let's put some checklists in there. Let's address the big issues around tiny living, which are the legalities, the ever changing legalities around tiny living and all the other things that you need to think about. And I think sometimes people think like, well, I like tiny houses. I'm never actually going to build one myself. I'm going to hire somebody to build it. Therefore, I don't really need to know all this stuff. Right. And I guess, yeah, sort of.

Chris Schapdick [00:27:37]: But even if you have somebody build a house for you, you still need to have an idea of, like, the things that you want in there, the things that are important to you and why you're doing something in the first place. Yes, no, maybe. What kind of insulation material do you want? The ever popular question of what kind of toilet do you want in your house and are you comfortable with? These are all things that you need to think about regardless of whether you ever plan to build a house yourself or have somebody do it for you. So that was the genesis of this.

Ethan Waldman [00:28:08]: Yeah, absolutely. I think that even if you're planning to hire someone to build your house, understanding all the systems and how they go together will ultimately lead to a better product. I mean, tiny houses are complicated because they're tiny. And I think the more that a consumer can be educated on how they're built, the better they'll do.

Chris Schapdick [00:28:36]: Yeah. And to some extent, it was also, you know, the kind of book that I wish I'd had when I first started out on this path, and it just simply didn't exist. And I ran a lot of Google searches. I watched a lot of YouTube videos. To some extent, this book will certainly save you a lot of that, a lot of time in that regard, because it tries to be all encompassing in that sense.

Ethan Waldman [00:29:08]: Yeah. And what's the title of the book?

Chris Schapdick [00:29:11]: The title is the joy of tiny house living nice on Amazon and bookstores near you.

Ethan Waldman [00:29:18]: And so when did it come out, and how has the reception been?

Chris Schapdick [00:29:22]: It came out sort of early summer this year, 2019. And, yeah, the reception's been great. I get a lot of people reaching out and telling me that they really like the book and that it's been, like, really helpful helping them organize their thoughts around, you know, what they're trying to do. So, yeah, the reception has been really good.

Ethan Waldman [00:29:45]: Well, that's great. And so you offer consulting as well, correct?

Chris Schapdick [00:29:51]: I do. Yeah, I do. You know, again, it's, my goal is to really help people, and I get a lot of joy out of doing that. And, you know, I think, you know, it's similar to what you do, right? Like, I mean, you're always trying to both educate people and give people the resources that they're looking for, you know, that part by way of these podcasts and so forth. So it's really no different for me. Like, I take a lot of pleasure in doing that. And, yeah, it's very rewarding when you have people that. That turn around and say thank you, and this has been really helpful, and that makes it kind of, like, all worthwhile to me.

Ethan Waldman [00:30:41]: Yeah, likewise, likewise. So one thing that I like to ask all of my guests is what are two or three resources that helped you out along on your tiny house journey that you'd like to share with our listeners?

Chris Schapdick [00:30:56]: Sure. So, well, you know, like I said, the initial nudge for me to get into tiny houses with Jay Schaefer. So, like, I want to tip my hat to him, being sort of a pioneer of the modern tiny house movement, as we like to call it. And so I think that's great. Beyond that, I think this has become kind of possible. Like, people building their own houses and people doing all these things, in part has become possible because of the Internet. Because before the Internet, where were you going to acquire all the various types of expertise and the various types of knowledge that are now available to everybody? This democratization of information, I think, has been so key in making all of this possible. And like I said, to that end, all the Google searches, all the people who have blogs out there, like you do, podcasts, the YouTube videos, all of the people that do that sort of thing, or even the instructable.

Chris Schapdick [00:32:16]: I wasn't the first person to put up an instructable on how to build a gypsy wagon. I just did my own spin on it. And there's other people that came before me that did that.

Ethan Waldman [00:32:28]: Right.

Chris Schapdick [00:32:28]: That all helps everybody else down the road, you know, paying it forward, like you said earlier.

Ethan Waldman [00:32:35]: Yeah, yeah, I really like that answer. I think that you've done a good job of kind of embodying that yourself, and so I think that you're doing good work.

Chris Schapdick [00:32:46]: Thank you.

Ethan Waldman [00:32:47]: And it sounds like you have another book in the works. Can you tell us about it, or is it super secret?

Chris Schapdick [00:32:53]: No, it's not super secret. Yeah, I have another book in the works. It's slated to come out in 2020, and it's kind of a. It's a bit of a supplement to the book that's already out. So the joy of tiny house living is really about. It's not a hands on book. Right. It's about, more about the concepts.

Chris Schapdick [00:33:14]: Like I said, the legalities, things you need to think about if you're pondering going tiny. The second book is kind of more of a hands on book, and it actually details and outlines the actual build of one of the smaller gypsy wagons. So think of it as like sort of the, the instructable that you referenced earlier on steroids. And I kind of walk people through building at first a, a shell, and then they could turn that into whatever they want. You know, you want a pool house for your backyard, you want a yoga studio, you want a home office, whatever it is you could turn that shell into. And then I, for the purpose of the book, I turn the shell that I create and sort of part two of the book into the camper tiny house that I've, that I've built a number of times now, that sort of form factor.

Ethan Waldman [00:34:14]: Awesome. Well, that sounds like a great book. I look forward to seeing it and reading it.

Chris Schapdick [00:34:20]: Yeah, me too.

Ethan Waldman [00:34:22]: Awesome. Well, Chris shaptic, thank you so much for being a guest on the show. This was really fun.

Chris Schapdick [00:34:27]: Yeah, no, I've had a good time. Thanks for having me on.

Ethan Waldman [00:34:32]: You can find the show notes from today's episode, including photos of Chris's tiny houses@thetinyhouse.net. zero eight one again, that's thetinyhouse.net zero eight one. Thank you so much to chris shaptic for being a guest on the show. And a quick announcement before we go. If you live in the northeast and you'd like to come see me speak live, you have two opportunities in the next couple of weeks. The first is the big mass tiny House festival, which is taking place in Beverly, Massachusetts, October 19 and 20th from 10:00 a.m. to 06:00 p.m. i'll be there on the 20th and will be leading a live podcast roundtable discussion about building a tiny house from salvaged materials.

Ethan Waldman [00:35:19]: And the following weekend, on October 27, I'll be at Tiny House Fest Vermont in Warren, Vermont, also leading a live podcast discussion about what the future of the tiny house movement will be. These festivals are a great opportunity to tour tiny houses, to meet people who live in tiny houses, and to learn about the lifestyle. From the legality to financing to building and everything in between. These are a great opportunity for you to learn more about tiny houses and the movement. So again, those two events are the fifth annual big Massachusetts Tiny House Festival, October 19 and 20th in Beverly, Massachusetts, and Tiny House Fest Vermont, October 27 in Warren, Vermont. There are links to both of those festivals on the show notes page for this episode@thetinyhouse.net. zero eight one. Again, that's thetinyhouse.net zero eight one.

Ethan Waldman [00:36:21]: All right, that's all for this week. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and I'll be back next week with another episode of the Tiny House Lifestyle podcast.