Bill Taha 0:00

Now the sad story is we don't have a single code for tiny homes. And the reason is it's on wheels. So you're partially vehicle and partially home. And we don't have yet a code that covers both situations.

Ethan Waldman 0:16

Welcome to the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast, the show where you learn how to plan, build and live the tiny lifestyle. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and this is episode 252 with Bill Taha. Bill Taha is the founder and president of PSE Consulting Engineers and he is a structural engineer. In this conversation, we are talking all about Tiny House foundations for both tiny houses on wheels and stationary tiny houses. Bill has put together a really helpful presentation which you can find on the show notes episode for this page at thetinyhouse.net/252. If you've ever wondered the proper and safe way to anchor a tiny house on wheels to the ground or more affordable ways that you can build a stationary tiny house, I highly recommend listening to this interview. I learned a ton and I know you will too.

Do you seriously want to live in a tiny house? If you're getting real about your tiny house journey, then what you need is support and accountability. My online community Tiny House Engage provides just that, connecting you with tiny house dreamers, people who are building their own tiny houses, and people who are currently living tiny to provide you with support and accountability on every step of your journey. Over the past few weeks on the podcast, you've actually met some Tiny House Engage members. Last week you met Kate Bohn, who got a shell from her builder and with the help of a plumber and friends completed her tiny house in 10 months. Kate is a Tiny House Engage member and has been posting throughout her journey and providing really helpful tips to others who are following the same path as her. You also met Bill Knapp, the retired teacher who is currently building his DIY tiny house on wheels with metal studs. Bill put together an awesome presentation on his tiny house journey and he is a regular active member of Tiny House Engage helping people out with questions about construction, about design and about maintenance. Tiny House Engage registration is opening this coming Tuesday. Head over to thetinyhouse.net/engage to learn more and get on the waiting list so you can register as soon as it opens up. Kate and Bill are just two of many helpful tiny houses that you'll meet in Tiny House Engage. We're excited to meet you, learn about your journey, and help you out however we can. Again that website is thetinyhouse.net/engage. We can't wait to meet you.

All right, I am here with Bill Taha. Bill is the Founder and President of PSE Consulting Engineers Incorporated. The structural design of modular tiny homes on wheels and economical permanent foundation options is what he specializes in. And today Bill is actually going to be giving a presentation on the structural design of modular tiny homes on wheels. Members of Tiny House Engage are able to stream this presentation live and ask questions. If you are listening on the podcast, I suggest heading over to the show notes page for this episode, which I'll say in a little bit. And you can view the slides that Bill is talking about and we'll also share the video for this one so that you can you can see it and hear it at the same time. But if you're in the car, if you're listening that way, that's totally fine. I will try to describe what I'm seeing as best I can. But Bill Taha, welcome to the show.

Bill Taha 4:44

Thank you so much, Ethan, and thank you for inviting me to speak and thank you guys for sharing your afternoon with us.

Ethan Waldman 4:50

Yeah, absolutely.

Bill Taha 4:52

Yeah, I'm gonna share with you nice information about tiny homes. Tiny homes is spreading all over the world, not only in the states and we definitely would like to join the movement because it does make sense. So the presentation will take about 40 minutes. And definitely Ethan and I will be also discussing any points as we go along. So if I go there and I move, we're going to discuss what's, what's a tiny house and what's not a tiny house. And we're going to discuss the criteria for a chassis design. And we're going to also share with you guys foundation options with which one of them is the most economical for sure. The information Ethan and I will share with you is definitely great information but if you use it without consulting with us, definitely you are on your own. So let you know. So many people sometimes change all the Volkswagen car, or a small RV to be the tiny home and this is not a tiny home. This is what it is. It is going to be a car or an RV or something like that. Yeah, some people refer to tree houses which is beautiful, I've been in tree houses. Also they call it tiny house. It is not a tiny house because it is high in the air. And it's not a tiny house. Again, motorhome and RVs are not tiny house for safety reasons. This, this vehicle like motorhome and RV, are temporary for temporary use, and cannot use as a permanent home. Of course some people use it. But it is not the way to be.

Ethan Waldman 6:34

They might be tiny, but they're not tiny homes.

Bill Taha 6:38

I like that.

Ethan Waldman 6:39

Okay.

Bill Taha 6:40

And that's that's, that's true. That is true. So what is a tiny house Tiny House is a single unit dwelling with maximum area of 400 square foot. That is the definition of tiny house. Now most of the tiny houses are made on vehicle chassis, because we would like to move it, even though I would like to touch on the move, because many people will move it few times. And then it's heavier than usual and sometimes takes too much gas. So I don't want you to think as a tiny house on wheels as if it's your RV. It's much bigger, heavier, and it could be moved but not like an RV. So that singular space most of the time it is single space. So there's no rooms on it while he can but most of the time is single space. And it could have a loft. A loft in residential home has have certain seven foot minimum height, the loft on a tiny home could be have less than five foot height for the loft. And the laughter must be open to the rest of the space. Tiny Houses also must be tied to the ground. You cannot have the tiny house on wheels and say, "That's it." No, it has to be tied to the ground for your safety, it's usually higher than an RV. And with wind and seismic could move it and as unsafe without the tie down. And this is a photo I am sure I'm not sure if you can see it or not. But the tie and the interior of a tiny house showing the loft and you can go the loft with the ladder or stairs. Both of them are legal. According to residential, international residential code from by the way, when we say international residential code, this is the American code. Just other country use it. It doesn't mean that international coming from China. This is the American code.

Ethan Waldman 8:37

Okay.

Bill Taha 8:38

Yes. So this is on the screen right now showing sample of the tiny houses that we design. It's nice it's really really if you move change your job or something you can take it with you if you choose to. This is a highest high one tiny home but it has big loft and that one of them is really the top one is for a president of a tiny home company that we did for him in 2014.

Ethan Waldman 9:09

That's the Andrew Morrison home!

Bill Taha 9:13

Excuse me, you nailed it. You nailed it, Ethan. That's right. He's a personal friend of mine I was I was told that he was retired them now I'm not sure. Maybe he is.

Ethan Waldman 9:24

Yeah, they've kind of retired from the tiny house world.

Bill Taha 9:27

Oh, okay. All right. All right. Yeah, I'm gonna give him a buzz. I'm gonna give him a buzz and tell him come back. So I'll see if I succeed.

Ethan Waldman 9:34

Yeah, I hope you I hope you do.

Bill Taha 9:36

Okay, all right. Tiny house is also... While most tiny houses are on wheels, we can also build a tiny house on foundation upfront. So feel free if that's your choice. We will do it and it worked fine. On the screen right now some tiny house is made from containers. Container also is like a wildfire right now. We use tiny with containers for Tiny houses offices, additional kitchen, additional bathroom, additional unit for your older parents or in laws. So it's used also as a tiny house for sure. That question I get the most often is what code shall I use for designing a tiny home because most likely the building department will ask you, where is the engineering for it. Now, the sad story is we don't have a single code for tiny home. And the reason is, it's on wheels. So you're partially fair vehicle and partially home. And we don't have yet a code that cover both situation. While I am going to have shared with you good news coming up. So the International Building Code, most of the time, we use it for the tiny home. And again, the International is American code. It's not came from China or India or something, just called International Building Code, because United States is the leader in specification and standard and other countries use it as well.

Ethan Waldman 11:05

Okay.

Bill Taha 11:06

I would like most of the tiny home user also please pay attention to the manufacturer, the home publication in your local building department. Some of the rules we borrow, steal, or whatever you call it from manufactured home because it's well established, and we use it for tiny home, especially foundation. So it is advantageous. If you would like to check with your local building department. What code do you guys have for a manufactured home. It will not cover all everything in the tiny home, but it will give you a push in tiny home. The good news I want to share with everybody that ASTM, the American Standard Testing and Material is working right now for developing a standard for tiny homes. I am a member of one of the committees and coming up probably six months or so that we will have standard for tiny homes that cover the chassis and the wheels and the house itself. So that is really great news for all of us.

Ethan Waldman 12:09

Yes, and I will I'll add that. We had Janet Thome on the show. It's been a little while so I should have her back to give us updates on that. But um, it's episode 181. So you can go to thetinyhouse.net/181 to hear that conversation if you're curious about that the ASTM efforts.

Bill Taha 12:29

Yes. Janet is a great I mean, God bless her heart. She put tons of effort until she she got it. And she was a winner. She is survivor, because many people oppose their effort. And finally she wants a number out of her.

Ethan Waldman 12:45

Yeah, yeah.

Bill Taha 12:46

So tiny houses could be done in a factory if you're if you're in hurry, which is to be honest, is he a good idea that you buy it, it's already done, instead of waiting for the electrician to show up one one time, and why not and blah, blah, and all things. Trust me, you don't want to go through that. The most money or maybe nice, and I saw from tiny home manufacturer that that state, enjoy your home in weeks, and instead of waiting for it for a year. Very true statement. So there are many people who manufacture tiny homes, I am not one of them. So if you don't think I'm selling you something right now, but if you can, it will save you a lot of time and headache. We can most of the tiny house homes guys are made from stick framing. But we can also build it from what we call structural insulated panels should give you great insulation, or we can build it from steel, your old refrigerator and my old car usually melt it and become a coil and from the coil, they can build any anything including a tiny house, especially if you are in a fire zone and you would like to have non combustible remember, the building department does not come to save your property. The building report the fire department come and do would like to save you and I as a human. But they care less about the property. I mean they do their best, but they are there to save you not your province. So if you'd like to save your property, the best thing that you can do to benefit from non combustible material like steel. Now, many tiny houses guys come under the boot framing underneath and then on the chassis. So 3 components, a tiny house floor system and the chassis. This is one way to do it. And another way that we eliminate the floor and with the tiny house on the chassis directly, which is the most common. If you look here, you see that that's the chassis and the joys in the same level as the chassis beams. And that's the tiny house directly on the chassis compared to the other one as you can see if you can see that photo is you have the chassis and then you have to buy six joists is part of the tiny home or it

Ethan Waldman 15:08

may be some those are gonna be some cold floors I don't see any insulation in there

Bill Taha 15:14

we removed it so you can show that the joists I'm not telling the truth right now. But this is what what I have but yes, but there's so two systems. But there are many manufacturer guys for tiny home a chassis it's different from tiny home from manufactured home. And usually it's made from tubes. And then I'm going to tell you a secret here the secret when we design the chassis for tiny homes, we design it for almost double that with the empty weight of the chair of the tiny home. Now I know you're going to accuse me of over design Why is double and blah blah, blah blah, that's double for your safety and also because when you drive it and he goes through a pump or a rock or something in the road, that dynamic effects increase the weight and we have to design for more than the actual weight to make sure that you are safe when you drive your tiny home. Yeah, okay. There is a company that Janet also shared that with me. Ethan, that's called the American tiny home trailers. And the if you can see the screen here is the website is American tiny house.com It will help you to pick a chassis from several on the market. So they are good company I installed nice the chassis as you can see from this photo the chassis if you are going to stage in a station not moving it it has to tie to the ground with what we call soil anchor is very, very simple it like it is and it's like a wood screw you screw it into the wood. This one is screwed into the ground, you screw it into the ground and go to the ground and give you a hug at the top and you tie your chassis beam to the soil anchor and then you secure it from flipping we highly emphasize that you need to tie your tiny house because unfortunately you have bad examples of several houses that's not tied to the ground and it's slid off the foundation and sometimes completely flipped in case of a high wind like in Florida or coastal area. So please please please tie your tie tiny house to the ground with soil anchors.

Ethan Waldman 17:35

Now what do you use to go from the soil anchor to the chassis is that like a metal cable what is the material there

Bill Taha 17:44

we use isn't usually what we call tie down and then the photo next photo I'm showing right now you see some kind of this kind of a strap strap wrapped around the chassis beam and go down it's hooked to the hook from the from the soil anchor and here is the connection between the tiny house and the soil anchor the soil into the soil so the house will be stable. Okay, I'm gonna share with you also how many usually new but the Chivas the way that she was one guys if you would like after he got your tiny house would like to build it on stable foundation is the stack of concrete blocks. We stack concrete blocks at six to eight foot under the chassis beam and under the perimeter of the house and that will give you stability for the vertical loads. So now we have a house that stable for vertical load but now it's at all sorry go ahead so

Ethan Waldman 18:40

is that on top of a poured like concrete pad.

Bill Taha 18:44

It could be concrete pad Ethan or it could be fiberglass box or pads I'm going to share with you coming up okay. Slab usually will use it for manufacture home to be honest with you but for tiny home I would say concrete pads or fiberglass pads would be reasonable. Okay so you can take it with you to be honest with you could be also carried with you if you want to. Here's the strap Ethan, I'm not sure if you all of you guys see the screen but is this travel about one and a half inch wide and the gauge 16 or 14 and it wrapped around the chassis beam because you can do that there is a space you can slide it in and the grab it down and you're either connected to a soil anchor or to any slab or something that you have most likely for tiny home we'll be to soil the soil anchor. As you see from the screen guys if you can see that will be great but in general, we use a tie down on each side of the tiny house at 10 foot on central to start from the beginning. We have to one each side of the house of the tie down anchor to a soul anchor 10 foot, two more two foot at 10 foot two more and so on. Also, you have now inside the house in the shorter direction so not going to move into shorter direction hopefully Now you need to tie it also for longer direction, so the house does not roll along with the length of the tiny house. So we add additional tie down and the soil anchor in the long direction as well. So it has to be tied in both direction, shorter direction and long direction. If you can see the screen, I'm showing the two perpendicular direction of the tie down. So just make sure that the tie down the house in two perpendicular direction. This is what you see in the screen is the soil anchor, as I shared with you, it's like a screw kind of from from this area, you screw it literally screw it until you get the good anchor to the soil. And it has a loop in the top so you can tie your tie down into it. So you can make sure that the house is tight and safe for you.

Ethan Waldman 20:51

Okay. Is this something that that the homeowner can can kind of do themselves, you know, can buy these these tie downs and put them in themselves?

Bill Taha 21:01

I so many people got get them from manufacturer home because it's used for manufacturing as well. And then they hire some contractor to do it. If you are a contractor, he can do it. God bless your heart. But if you hire somebody who knows and done it before, I think that's a good idea,

Ethan Waldman 21:18

You probably need a pretty powerful drill or something to get a 60 inch round screw into the ground, I would imagine.

Bill Taha 21:26

Yeah, as you can see it and now you can see that the strap is the tie down. So it's two pieces the tie down and then the soil anchor tie down is wrapped around the chassis beam and connected to the soil anchor. Even here, you can see three pieces is tied down if and in a yoke or a piece of metal that connects this one to the solid anchor and nearing the end of the soil anchor to tie the that your tiny house. There are also many, many other system isn't in the market, I'm not going to go through it because we don't have time for it. But in addition to the tie, tie down soil anchor and tie down, which is the most common and very effective, by the way, and cheap. There are other systems that you can buy to tie your tiny house to the ground, just to check with any manufactured home. Because manufacture home and Tiny House share the foundation together. Same system. There is another system called the diamond pier, if you'd like to use it, I think the tie down and the solid anchor is stronger, but you have options. It's not like you're stuck with one system. And this is instead of the stack of concrete blocks to support the house for vertical loads guys, there is also steel piers, instead of the concrete piers, you have a steel piers, if you can see the screen it is there on the screen.

Ethan Waldman 22:59

Yep.

Bill Taha 22:59

And it's doable. I mean, there are several options. And as I shared with you a little while ago, the stack of blocks or the steel piers could be put on concrete pads that you can take with you if you move right, this one a little bit on the thick side there is also two inches that people use. And also you can use fiberglass ads, as you can see here, below the steel or the concrete block Pierce's thing

Ethan Waldman 23:29

So what would prevent those from sinking into the ground?

Bill Taha 23:33

That's a very good question. So thank you for asking for this one. Definitely if you are a softer soil, it will sink but most of the people throw some rock or some compacted good soil below the pads so it doesn't sink but yes, especially in that wet area. If and even if you have heard the soil sometimes with the water is moist, it can sink.

Ethan Waldman 23:59

Okay.

Bill Taha 24:00

So make sure that you put the pads on a firm foundation the same same apply also Ethan for the soil anchor, if you anchor the soil anchor into a wet soil is not going to hold the match. And you have to use longer until you go to longer soil anchor until you go to firm soil so water could be an issue for sure. If you choose to build your tiny home and then have permanent foundation like Like as I shared with you one of the president of one of the companies, you could create foundations similar to the regular homes, it could be concrete could be wood as you can see on the screen here or it could be also masonry, that if he decided they are not going to move the house anymore. There is a very wonderful publication it is free. You can get it from HUD that guy I've discovered the permanent foundation guide for manufactured home, as I shared with you, and we still adopted from manufactured home. Absolutely, yes. Nobody's going to stop you, as long as you're doing the safe thing. So that publication, you can get it for free from hud.gov. And this is only for the foundation, it's not for the manufacturer on itself. Again, we thank you all we even finished earlier than we anticipated because Ethan did not ask me tough questions. He was nice today. So he asked easy questions. But I am done with the presentation and then open for any question that you guys have.

Ethan Waldman 25:42

Well, awesome. I will. I will say that to the chat. If you have any questions for Bill about, you know, the structural engineering aspects of tiny house on foundation or on a tiny house on trailer. I actually had a couple of questions. Back when you were talking about the different options for putting a tiny house on a trailer. And you talked about either, you know, framing a 2x4, 2x6 floor and putting that on top of the trailer or setting your floor essentially into the trailer. Yeah, I know that there have been some issues that people have had with thermal bridging, particularly when they build their house, that when the floor system is inside of the trailer, and then their floors extend over the flange of the trailer, they get a very cold spot right there because there's its sub floor directly on top of the flange. Yeah, and you know, in the Northeast where I am or a cold climate that can really create the moisture issues. I'm curious if you can speak to you know, some ways that you have mitigated the thermal issues between that cold metal trailer or chassis and then the the floor itself?

Bill Taha 26:57

Yeah, to be honest with you. Usually we use insulation. Ethan, and also, we're at the bottom of the tiny home. So yes, there is a way is to and he caught me when I showed this this photo. So he said about insulation. Yes. Yeah. So insulation and wrapping paper that definitely will help. And if you also have the skirting if you if you are going to stop the manufacturing market, and you can have a skirting and the skirting sometimes could be vinyl, just to stop the air from coming in. Yeah, that definitely will help. And I just would like to share with you that even if you have vinyl, skirting usually what also appears at the parameter of the house for additional support definitely is an issue especially for poor areas.

Ethan Waldman 27:52

I agree. Okay. Another question for you, if I may. So this one, let me think I just I just had it in my head. Oh, yes. So in the example of somebody who is, you know, has a tiny house on a trailer, and they're, they're moving around somewhat frequently, say every few months? Oh, and, you know, they don't necessarily have the opportunity to do much site work, you know, and they're just parking their tiny house in somebody's backyard, you know, on ground that is not, not necessarily stable. Hmm. Any any thoughts on you know, because you mentioned those, those fiberglass pads that can be taken with you. Any thoughts on how to stabilize a house, just temporarily, you know, without doing a ton of site work?

Bill Taha 28:49

Again, to be honest with you, Ethan, I'm gonna go back to the soil anchor, because it's all anchor, you can even take it with you again, or it's just leave it and go.

Ethan Waldman 28:56

Yeah.

Bill Taha 28:57

So the tiny the concrete or steel piers, along with the soil anchor is my my, my choice now. My sister lives, sometimes in an RV and our home, but the RV or RV tucked behind the house. So it's away from the windy area.

Ethan Waldman 29:19

Yep.

Bill Taha 29:19

So that's another thing he can eat something he can think of. If you're parking your tiny house for a short period of time, don't put it in the urban area. Just tuck it behind another house so that the permanent house, the house was the foundation can take the wind off the tiny house, that would be a good option too if you're parking for a short period of time.

Ethan Waldman 29:46

Okay. Okay. Do you know of any foundation system that would essentially allow a tiny house that could be moved You know, something that's on skids. So you, but that doesn't have a trailer attached to it. Like, you know, I'm envisioning, you know, a building that that, uh, that a big flatbed truck could could winch onto its flatbed and bring somewhere else. What would that foundation look like for that kind of building?

Bill Taha 30:18

That's a good question. I foundation for this one to be done here, we don't have the chassis, right, we don't have the chassis. So let's see, right, no chassis, no chassis. So that could be it, to be honest with you, if temporary, I will say railroad ties your bodies on the ground, and then you put your house on the railroad ties. And then if it's gonna park it for a long period of time, then you have to tie it as well, because the house put slide, even though it's unlikely, but theoretically could. And as an engineer, I have to share with you it could slide as well.

Ethan Waldman 30:54

Okay, so you still want to anchor it,

Bill Taha 30:56

you still want to anchor it if this entire road, rail road ties in the ground, that chance of flipping or tilting is less likely because it's very close to the ground. So you're a little bit on the safer side compared to IANA chassis and wheels.

Ethan Waldman 31:13

Okay.

Bill Taha 31:15

But railroad ties and some gravel probably broke before he bought the railroad ties will do good. But again, my recommendation that he had some tie down and soil anchor as well.

Ethan Waldman 31:29

Okay. Now, in the photo that you're showing here, that this is the one that I that I made the joke about that the floors would be cold, because I don't see any insulation. I'm curious. And this is actually a question from from a Tiny House Engage member in the chat, Joe, noticing that the floor framing isn't pressure treated? And is there any worry about rot, where the wood is in contact with with the chassis?

Bill Taha 31:53

That is really a very good question. condensation on the steel is true, and it does happen. And I would put a building paper or moisture barrier on the top of the silly chairs here. Okay? Isn't that's a very good point. And also, if you are closer than or less than 18 inches to the dirt, then the joist itself has to be pressure treated. Okay, so if you are above 18 inches away from the dirt, then the joists can be irregular joists not Irish are treated, but it would moisture barrier between the steel and the wood. That's excellent. Good idea. So be careful if you're lower than that, that the choice itself has to be pressure treated. Okay, and that's good.

Ethan Waldman 32:41

And how do you recommend securing the framing to the chassis?

Bill Taha 32:48

That is a good question. And now we're gonna get into the tougher one Mr.

Ethan Waldman 32:53

Yeah, I wasn't gonna let you off that easy, either, right, it's not often that I get to talk to a structural engineer. So I'm gonna just keep going.

Bill Taha 33:03

Well, Ethan, thank you for putting all of us together, you did a great job. And I'm proud of you to be honest with you. Many people would love to have to tap into the knowledge that you have. There are several methods. So to do that, there is a Simpson anchor angle that you can nail to the joist and then screw it or weld it to the top of the steel beam. There are lag screws, some people do like a screw to the joists with a steel steel plate to grab the bottom of the top flange of the chassis. Okay, so there are many ways but again you call it the footer does not show this connection. Thank you and also blocking between the joists that we can see it right now to stop it from flipping or turning aside. Yeah. So the mechanical anchor and the blocking usually will secure the joist to the chassis boom.

Ethan Waldman 34:08

Got it. Got it. So I want to ask you about you know, the work that you do you know, are you are you available to consult you know, if if somebody is out there, you maybe they've designed their own tiny house and they want to, you know, make sure it passes muster and passes structural engineering, you know, are you is your company available to do consults or you know, obviously for hire.

Bill Taha 34:36

We do we did actually Ethen we did tons of them since 2013. When I am an Andrew but there is a great guy he introduced me to more than a tiny house. Yeah, we do design we do a lot of it. We do it all over the country isn't any house. But the problem was consultation. If somebody would like to have verbal consultation, then a can't be could run into who is who? He said. She said, Yeah, blah, blah. And that could get me in trouble as you know, I have a follow the rules of the licensable engineering license board. So most of the time is going to be on the letter. So there is nothing called he said, she said, Yeah, or on a drawing that will reduce and tell you, Okay, here's the chassis drawing. And here's the house drawing. Please build it according to the plan. Right?

Ethan Waldman 35:25

Right. I stamped this as long as you build it the way it's the way it's drawn.

Bill Taha 35:31

Yeah, got it. Got it. Because to be honest with you, I mean, I don't blame them. When I go to the fixing my car Ethan and the mechanic tell me bla bla bla bla bla it goes over my head. And I tell you, Okay, fix the whatever he said you have a potato or whatever it is fix it. I don't bother with. So if you talk verbally to people, they may misunderstood you are misinterpret what he said. So usually we depend on consultation on the letter, we write down what we would like to convey or most of the time on drawing. Okay, but we are we are open for business. Yes, we'd love to team up with people. And we'd love to thank people for building a tiny home. Because tiny home is environmentally sound. And also it is a small unit. So your foot, your carbon footprint is a small, so she thank the people who build the tiny house and encourage them to continue.

Ethan Waldman 36:27

And I will put in the show notes for this episode, by the way, which will be episode number 252. So that tiny house.net/252 for all this. I'll put Bill's company's website it's structure one.com And I'm guessing you can get in touch with them there. But I had a question for you about this. This might be an interesting one. So he is you. I don't want a tough one. And I don't know you'll you'll tell me so if you if you bill we're gonna live in a tiny house. What what construction technique would it be would you do for your own personal house? Would you do SIPs, sticks, or steel? And would you do a trailer or a foundation?

Bill Taha 37:12

It depends really on the where I'm going to build it or where where I want to stay. So so if I'm in an area that has fire like sounds California, for example, definitely going to be light gauge steel. You want to steal that combustible? I have a peace of mind. If I'm non combustible non fire hazard area. Definitely the cheapest will be stick framing. If I'm in cold weather. Like you said, you're in Massachusetts. Are you?

Ethan Waldman 37:39

Vermont.

Bill Taha 37:40

Vermont?

Ethan Waldman 37:41

Colder than Massachusetts!

Bill Taha 37:42

Are you kidding me, Ethan? Massachusetts is the coldest? I haven't been to Vermont. Okay. If you're in cold area, definitely SIPs will be was issues a structural insulated panel will be the way to go because it has very high insulation value.

Ethan Waldman 37:57

Yeah.

Bill Taha 37:58

So it depends if I'm acting chep, like my wife say, claim that I'm cheap, then stick framed would be the way to go.

Ethan Waldman 38:05

Yeah, yeah.

Bill Taha 38:06

Okay.

Ethan Waldman 38:07

Yeah.

Bill Taha 38:07

And by the way, don't don't try to change my wife, opinion that I'm a cheap guy, because that's what she claimed. So she made up her mind.

Ethan Waldman 38:16

I'll leave that between you. Well, Bill Taha, thank you so much for being a guest on the show this I learned a lot and this was great.

Bill Taha 38:25

Thank you so much. And we learned from any other episode that you did the essence of thank you for putting all us together. I'm really grateful for you and proud of you.

Ethan Waldman 38:35

Thank you.

Thank you so much to Bill Taha for being a guest on the show today. You can find the show notes including a video version of today's podcast so you can see Bill's presentation or just download it as a PDF over at thetinyhouse.net/252. Again, that's thetinyhouse.net/252. Also, don't forget to check out my online community Tiny House Engage. Registration is opening on Tuesday at thetinyhouse.net/engage. If you go there before registration opens or anytime it's closed, you can sign up to be notified as soon as the doors open. Tiny House Engage is truly where I focus most of my time and energy when I'm not working on the show. I'm there interacting with tiny house hopefuls providing support and answering questions and just learning actually from all of our members. Registration opens Tuesday at thetinyhouse.net/engage. Well, that's all for the show this week. I'm your host, Ethan Waldman, and I'll be back next week with another episode of the Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast.

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